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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive


[see correction -brewster]

The Internet Archive has worked with tapers, tape
traders, funders, admins, and over 1000 bands
to build a great non-commercial music library that is freely accessible.
Technically and policy-wise, it has been invigorating as you can probably appreciate.
We have made changes in the past and we will make changes again.

Following the policies of the Grateful Dead and the Dead communities
we have provided non-commercial access to thousands of great concerts.
Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked
to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed
on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe
in the Archive for preservation purposes.

Here is the plan:

Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.

Additionally, the Grateful Dead recordings will be separated from the
Live Music Archive into its own collection. The metadata and reviews for
all shows and recordings will remain available.

We appreciate that this change will be a surprise and upset many of you, but please
channel reactions in ways that you genuinely think will be productive.
If we keep the bigger picture in mind that there are many experiments
going on right now, and experiments working well, we can build on the momentum
that tape trading started decades ago.

Working together we can keep non-commercial sharing part of our world.

Thank you for helping find balances that work for all involved.

-brewster
Digital Librarian and Founder

-Matt Vernon
Volunteer GD Archivist




This post was modified by brewster on 2005-11-30 20:35:48

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Poster: Dead.Doc Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm so sad. I was downloading GD and NRPS Filmore East May 15, 1970 and something didin't go right and the files wouldn't open. I went back and it was gone. I almost cried. I'm glad I downloaded what I did when I did, and I'm kicking myself for not downloaded more.

I hope someone re-thinks this and gives us back this treasure chest of joy. This Christmas would be a nice gift! I'll figure out the trading thing I guess. I was out of the loop so long (since the late 80s) that I hadn't figured that network out.

Thanks to Archive.org for the joy while it lasted.

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Poster: Dan Wolf Date: Dec 12, 2005 2:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It's only appropriate that everyone know the true cause of this. This new restriction on archive.org was pushed through in secret by Bob Weir, Bill Kreutzmann, and Mickey Hart. They voted on it and decided not to tell Phil about it (since it was clear that he would object to the idea).

The new plan that's in the works is to prohibit the trading of Grateful Dead concerts by any means over the Internet. That would not just affect archive.org, but any site on the Internet hosting Grateful Dead shows.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,17883,00.html?tnews

You can read about it on the above link. Barlow explains what transpired.

The only member of the Dead that is worth supporting is Phil. He's the only one that recognizes the pact made between the Dead and its fans. Back in the day, when the Dead were smaller, they relied on fans to use their own time and money to help mass-market the Dead to fans worldwide. Dead fans would take it upon themselves to do this, free of charge, and the result was the Grateful Dead became a musical legend. This NEVER EVER would have happened without the tireless efforts of tapers and traders. I know we all love the Dead, but they wouldn't have come anywhere close to the status they enjoy now without the hard work of fans. To those who say they don't owe fans the soundboards, you are wrong. Taking them away shows that the band (Bob, Bill, and Mickey, not Phil) view their fans as a marketing department who's value has expired. They're content to sit back and rest on the money that we helped them make, forgetting who helped get them there.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 12, 2005 3:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

You are responding to a 2-week-old post. The most constructive thing you can do here now is *not* to go on discussing this here. Please see
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565
Thanks.

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Poster: Dan Wolf Date: Dec 12, 2005 4:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Sorry, didn't realize that this forum was a soapbox for moderators and that anyone who said anything they didn't agree with was silenced. Freedom of speech is only free if it's exhaustive. The speech that's most important to protect is the speech that's least popular.

Didn't mean to make the mistake of posting to an archive.org forum. It won't happen again...

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Poster: staylorrr Date: Dec 12, 2005 5:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

My take (this won't take long Diana) is that by eliminating the fire on the forum here, archive.org is trying to protect what we do have (audience recordings). Go back and read that article again Dan - does it seem like Bobby, Mickey and Bill care what the public thinks? It sure as hell doesn't to me. Let's not give them any more spite to take out on us. They've made it perfectly clear that they feel they don't owe us spit. Let's not destroy what's left while I'm still enjoying it.

Bill's response to the boycott: "See ya."

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Poster: drew4utoo Date: Dec 12, 2005 3:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Seems like the archive motto should be modified to reflect this new attitude, something like "Universal access to human knowledge...through censorship"!

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Poster: REVSOUP Date: Dec 12, 2005 6:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

somebody got an adress for bobby? i wanna send him a copy of A & E's biography special on JERRY. especially the part where they are interviewing JERRY and bobby about taping/ tapers. what a kodak moment ,lol
(yeah,yeah...i know "movin' on. but we are are part of this community too :P )

This post was modified by REVSOUP on 2005-12-13 02:16:07

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Dec 12, 2005 7:12pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Just curious--when did that A&E Bio air? I've never seen it...any plans for the channel to re-air it soon?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 12, 2005 9:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: musical tastes

Hi Drew, you've made a dozen posts, but I don't think I've seen any about music. What kind of music do you like, and why?

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-13 05:07:59

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Poster: Aiko Date: Nov 27, 2005 11:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Im not sure if whoever is responsible for this is aware of the future downslide in Grateful Dead value which is going to occur. I have been going to shows, trading tapes, CDs,etc... for the good part of 20 years now (I am no amateur of GD trading). Archive.org did a wonderful job of supplying us old school guys, along with new fans with the music we all love to hear. I have replaced my massive poor quality cassette tape collection I acquired, with pristine soundboard digital cds. This has made me hungry for more GD music, causing me to purchase such things as Dicks Picks, Pure Jerry's, DVDs... Something which I would never even think of doing 10 years ago. Since Jerry's death the Deadhead community has diminished leaving us with less and less resources for such things as trading and sharing music thus making it hard for new to the scene heads to get a chance to groove to a betty-board 70s show. Not to mention the folks that are not really familiar with the GD that may stumble across a familiar song or two on archive. A few years after Jerry's death I kind of strayed away from trading, or even listening to to the dead for a while. Tapes were hard to get (without going to shows), and I was tired of my collection. When I discovered archive, I began downloading all the shows I went to, old shows I had heard about, replacing my crappy audience recordings, and PURCHASING live dead for even better quality recordings. I had no interest in seeing "THE DEAD", PHIL & FRIENDS, or RATDOG. Because archive made it possible for me to reconnect with the Grateful Dead music from the past, I felt the need to reconnect with the present Grateful Dead formations... I started going to shows again.
I think that this is a bad idea. I can no longer brag about how the dead takes care of its fans by giving us the music we all love for free, after all PHIL isn’t it all about the music? At least that is what you told us in your recent book. The band needs to remember what it is all about and not contradict themselves. I am almost positive that Jerry would not have let this happen.
Please reply with your thoughts.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Nov 28, 2005 2:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

After raising the issue, I did a more complete search, although still skimming and I may have missed some, but I saw at least 25 Phil soundboards in the Archive.org P&F section. And most of those were official DSBD releases by Phil, himself. And that number doesnt include recordings made from FM radio broadcasts. So I think Phil deserves to be taken out of the debate unless some other piece of information comes out. He seems to be the one carrying on the tradition. And just to clarify my own position, the boycott of GDM and the other band members does not include Phil.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Nov 28, 2005 12:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

You shouldn't be so quick to jump on Phil. I don't know if they are all still there but I checked P&F 9/25-27/03, three soundboards he released for download at the time, and they are. Personally, I don't believe for one minute that Phil is responsible for any of this. And I would remind people that the feud that went on principally between Phil and Bob a couple of years ago was about digitizing the vault. That was when Mickey said some really ugly things about Phil, like he got the liver of a jerk, so I would speculate that Phil got outvoted and that a majority of the band has sold out. But don't blame it on Phil. He is what we have left.

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Poster: ztheday Date: Nov 27, 2005 11:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

So, who can help a young, new Grateful Dead fan get some shows via trading? I've never traded before, but I have grown to love the Dead after discovering them on the Archive. Any ideas where I can go to start trading? Aiko, you have a collection? I have a few shows from 1970, one from 72, one from 73, and a couple from 77. I'd be willing to share them. Just let me know how a trade goes down.

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Poster: Aiko Date: Nov 28, 2005 12:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Well hopefully this issue will resolve itself, and some sort of internet community will emerge.

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Poster: DeadHeadMike Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I think now that the shock is over,and all the crap has been slung around both at the Archive Folks and The Band, maybe we can remember why we as a group of folks listen to the Grateful Dead in the first place. It's not because Jerry hits every note with surgical percision or that Bobby remembers every lyric Barlowe wrote for him. Its the sheer unadulterated kindness that the scene exuded and still does today at The Dead shows that I have gone to. We as a community of Dead Heads should be showing that same kindness to these folks who gave us a dream come true. To be able at the drop of a hat to download snapshots in time in a matter of hours what 20 years ago took me and many others weeks if not months to make contacts with other tapers and hope they remember my address and then finally seeing that envelope in the mail box arrive to find 3 tapes that I knew wouldnt be close to the SBD quality shows I've been getting from these folks.
We just need to go back to the old school way of trading. Heaven forbid we make friends out of the deal. I have some shows and am willing to copy what ever I have for blanks and postage (just like the 80s). If anyone is interested in my list just email me. We need to adapt to this minor setback and even though the bands all packed and gone, make sure the music never stops!
One more offer of thanks, appreciation and gratitude to the wonderful folks at Archive.org who gave me the opportunity to expand my collection of shows.

Take Care

DeadHeadMike mlaws@wideopenwest.com

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Poster: omahadeadhead Date: Dec 1, 2005 3:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Might as well throw in my two cents here...

I am poor. I live in poverty everyday of my life. I am fortunate to have purchased a computer a few years ago when I had bit of money, and the one thing that has given me continuous strength and allowed me to continue seeing the beauty of life is my ability to explore the deepest depths of the Grateful Dead to the extreme degree that my soul desires. I believe that I am far from alone in this community in my lack of economic means. I believe that there are a great many of us who have dedicated ourselves to principles rather than economics. I strive everyday to avoid lending my hand to raise a flag atop a ship of fools. The Dead brought me into this higher state of mind. What they have taught me over many years is to see through the haze of greed and corporatization. It is well known that the Dead outgrew their roots and inevitably became a corporate entity. But somewhere along the line, Jerry's idea on avoiding seeing themselves as a corporate entity was lost. This is not really new to any of us, we have known it for a while. But I never thought the day would come where that very greed would grow to the point of taking away what we already have. Technology is a marvelous thing, a true incarnation of the mind expansion explored so meticulously by the band themselves. The internet is truly a source of limitless knowledge and resource. It only seemed natural that this treasured music, greater than any other, would become a part of this oblivion of endless knowledge and resource. NOw the day has finally come where greed has overtaken the desire to shine the light on those who have yet to see it. The loss of Jerry was seemingly the end of this miraculous creation called the Grateful Dead. But through the wonders of technology, it became possible to establish an unbelievably complete means of continuing our exploration of this music. Now, due to the greed of individuals (possibly even Jerry's wife? Remember, she wouldn't even allow Mountain Girl to attend his funeral) who had no hand in the creation of said music, as well as some of the members of the band itself, we have lost this national treasure. I am nearly heartbroken, though not surprised, that greed has finally killed the Grateful Dead. For many years I have defended that ugly bunch of misfits from California from other's insinuations that they are more corporate than family, that they are more commercialism than money, from many people who reside outside the scene. Now it pains me to see that they were more accurate than I allowed myself to believe at the time. That dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago is quickly fading into the forgotten past, never to be seen again. This archive is the way this music will survive forever. In twenty years, when the Grateful Dead is even further removed from the minds of the mainstream, this is the way it survives. People will not discover the door we entered by deciding randomly to purchase a Dick's Picks.

I have lived my life by the principles of the Grateful Dead, and I am not alone. I am one of those that believes money is the true root of all evil, and that the expansion of consciousness is the true purpose of life. I don't have money for Disk's Picks. I dont have money for digital downloads. There are many of us out there, barely getting by, but living free and happy as a result of having been shown things by the Grateful Dead that are truly beyond words. That the things that they have shown us have finally been reduced to the level of petty greed is truly a sad state of affairs, that we now see that Grateful Dead has clearly become more focused on money than the message, is heartbreaking. Many will say that this happened years ago, but be that as it may, they still allowed us access to this national treasure, the archive of every show ever performed. Now that has been taken away. I'm not bitter, I just feel that the underlying principles by which I've lived my life for so long, have finally been estranged from the source. This band with which I've felt as tight a bond with as I do with any of my family or friends has faded away into the night. This band that I more or less donated 20% of my income to in many years gone by has left me here alone. I guess it can really truly be said now that the future's here, we are it, we are on our own. Unfortunately, the WE no longer includes the Grateful Dead. Sorry this is so long, I just had to throw my 2 pennies in the jar.

Peace, Love, Jerry.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 2, 2005 11:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Anybody checked out the new dead website? Funny it happened so soon after the revolution was put down. And even funnier is that the riotous postings, thousands of them, under "GD Downloads" are moved into archive and if you look for them you see that they were cut off on Nov. 23 just when things were getting ugly. Where did those missing thousands of angry postings go? It looks to me like free speech is not a "Grateful Dead value."
If everyone else wants to forgive and forget, I'll get out of here, but I think this smacks of revisionism. What happened was very ugly in my opinion and I believe it deserves a dialog with those on the other side of the fence: the band members. I see Mickey has finally posted a statement after being goaded for several days and, shock, he says he's agreed with Phil all along about the SBDs. Am I the only one who doesnt believe that?
Speaking of Phil, the other interesting thing I noticed is his release of a new soundboard. Just when the rest of the band has put the Dead SBD's back into the vault. Streaming? They are telling us: "Look but dont touch." And what show did Phil give us? November 22. That is poetic. It's his way of putting his money where his mouth is, which is more than the rest of the band has done.
Does anybody agree or should I just quietly leave?

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Poster: drew4utoo Date: Dec 2, 2005 12:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Yup just checked it out and when I did a search for "live music archive" there was very little that came up. Looks like somebody doesn't want any record of discontented fans or maybe I'm just the suspicious type (or simply unable to find any of the old posts from last week...there were a few as I recall and folks were none too happy). Where did you see the statement from Mickey? I couldn't find it and would like to read it. Post a link to it please. For myself I'm still boycotting GDM and will continue until they "see the light and repent". I do feel that they treated us the fans pretty poorly in this situation and given the past respect shown and the good will it created, I'm surprised. Too bad this had to happen but as countless others have said "it was too good to last". Send GDM a letter telling them how you feel. If we make use of our power as consumers and make a difference in GDM's profits then perhaps they will rethink this decision and allow people to enjoy the music that was available on the archive in its entirety without any new restrictions.

See a previous post for my letter to GDM and write one of your own to let them know how you feel.
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=49786

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 2, 2005 1:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Mickey reveals that he really wants free soundboard distribution, but is just misunderstood. The revelation is at: http://www.mickeyhart.net/Pages/news.html. Sorry, cant insert the link, but the address will get you there. Although I will say this to be fair: it seems that some of his Hydra shows soundboards were posted on the archive the last time I looked. He's selling them where he can, but he may not have pulled his own from the archive.
But the dead.net site reads like the history of the USSR (back when the USSR could still write its own history, that is). I corresponded with a terrific woman, Margaret, who had the lousy job of opening and responding to customerservice email to the GD store. I told her, which she passed on to the bosses, that if the GD Downloads arent doing so well they should consider cutting the price, not creating a monopoly. I showed her that you could buy a 3-disc Dicks Picks for $21, but a three-disc download cost $20. Thats without blank media, jewel case, artwork, album notes and most of all, no professional disc pressing. Went on to say I thought downloads ought to cost between $4 and $7. Bet we'll never see those prices. Or maybe nobody will buy and we will finally. That would be more like fair.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 2, 2005 1:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Further to my last post, I take back what I said about being fair to Mickey. I just checked again and there are NO HYDRA soundboards. I may have been mistaken before, but I thought I saw a couple. None now, though. So either I was wrong or he pulled them. Anyway, I feel better now. I still dont believe Mickey's claim of innocence and I do believe Barlow when he said the drummers have "inoperable bricks" in their heads. And I trust Phil, of course. He was clairvoyant, I guess, with his book title. Now we're all "Searching for the Sound." Just dont buy it from GDM.

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Poster: drew4utoo Date: Dec 2, 2005 2:37pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hydra shows are still posted on LMA (10). I agree w/you regarding the veracity of the various bandmembers statements. Phil & Barlow seem to have the most credibility as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to know what Hunter thinks. As for the remaining members...the silence is deafening and speaks volumes!

This post was modified by drew4utoo on 2005-12-02 22:37:11

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 2, 2005 3:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

There are Hydra shows posted but no soundboards. I thought I saw a couple of soundboards the other day. I looked specifically at Hydra because that was when the Barlow quote came out about the drummers. But whatever, there are no soundboards there now. So like I said, either I was wrong to begin with or they have been pulled. Not that I'm complaining. It the Dead SBD's I want back, not Hydra.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 2, 2005 10:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Hydra concert recordings on the Internet Archive

There has been no change to the Hydra collection here except the addition of more music over time. Therefore you must be mistaken.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-03 06:09:15

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 2, 2005 10:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Hydra concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks for clarifying that. BTW, you've done a good job through all this madness. How do you read all this material?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 2, 2005 10:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: forum postings on the Internet Archive

How do you read all this material?

Through the IA front page forum view. The "more" link is even my home page right now. Also, it would be impossible without Firefox tabs. Go Firefox!

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-03 06:56:19

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Poster: rdr Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

[1] LMA is just doing what they have to do. No bad karma for them, and many thanks for the overall site.

[2] 1980-2005. 300+ shows. Every commercial release (assuming Santa brings the last half-dozen in a month). Books. T-shirts. Ties. I prefer soundboards; wouldn't have an issue at all if boards went commercial in some manner as long as a lossless repository for audience tapes was retained.

So...

[3] Not another Red Cent until or unless the conditions in [2] are met.

[4] Probability of [3]. Zero, in my estimation. Driver, my stop is apparently here. Time to get off the bus.

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Poster: markintoga32 Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

you know, with the amount of attention given to rat dog and phil and friends, you'd think they would like the free publicity. I for one an not going out and now paying for something that was once free. Secondly, the great thing about this site is that you can download what you like. you do not have to wait for an archivist to choose something for you. I have no problems when they pull the soundboards of shows that are already or about to be released.
Ratdog sucks, phil is decent but not the same and the "dead" have had their moments, but they all can't compare to the real thing. which is what we have here, a virtual play land where we could relive something from the past. I'm not sure what the plan from here is with the web site, I was recording a show, got set one done, ran out of discs, so I went out to purchase more, when I got back all the boards were all gone. But I hope the powers to be on this one realize they are only hurting the dead and their members 1; by disassociating the fans that are still interessted and 2; by limiting the ability of others to jump on the "train" or join the "circus"so to speak.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

If you intend to stop buying from GDM, tell them. Send an email to customerservice@gdstore.com and let them know directly. If they want to play capitalist hard ball, tell them you're voting with your feet! But dont forget to be kind. Just because someone else may have lost it, doesnt mean you must too. The point is not to vent, but only to get the message to whoever is responsible for this that they blew it. If they see enough messages from calm, deliberate deadheads that their merchandising future is threatened, maybe wiser heads will prevail.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Bob Weir pulled the plug on RATDOG SBDs in 2003, and adopted Govt. Mule's "audience taping" policy except that it wasn't retroactive! It doesn't surprise if Deborah Koons a HOLLYWOOD studio refugee would try something that we might have expected from the RIAA. And wasn't that COURT TV trial in Marin County her public embarassment?

Jerry Garcia and David Grisman used to comment publicly about making bootleg tapes of bluegrass festivals. This is why we wound up with a bunch of GRATEFUL DEAD tapes later on.

Phil Lesh always said, that it was ours; when he was done playing the music. The "Friends" continue to distribute live concerts on their homepage; so I doubt that it was his idea to be the jerk-off.

Third party software makes it easier to record streaming audio with DSL or cable systems; so do your thing...

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Poster: jjjbaggins Date: Dec 5, 2005 1:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It's not too late to download great quality NRPS from 1970-71! These are Jerry's years with the band and have not been represented on official NRPS releases yet, unless you count three bonus songs on the first album from 7-2-71 (which is available in its entirety here). I hope I'm not attracting unwanted attention, but if they do have the power to pull these, too, I now have them all so drop me a line.

This post was modified by jjjbaggins on 2005-12-05 09:29:48

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Poster: QtheE Date: Dec 6, 2005 1:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

So it looks like, following fan backlash, streaming soundboards have been restored...

Though I don't think we've STILL heard a definative word from the Band on this issue, its seems clear that it IS all about the MONEY - otherwise downloads would still be allowed.

The sad thing is, if they had handled this a different way the fans would have reacted differently and they could have maintained the good will while still cashing in.

The way the pulled the plug, without warning or explanation is part of what pissed so many people off.

My recommendation would have been to announce that one year from now, Soundboard recordings would no longer be available for free downloads.

Announce that following that time, soundboard recordings would be available for downloading at a very reasonable prices - perhaps allowing a one time fee for a lifetime of downloads, etc...

By taking measured and reasonable steps they could have ensured that, while the price per concert was low, the volume of downloaders would remain high. As it stands they've pissed off their best customers.

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Poster: gphishmon Date: Dec 6, 2005 12:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Bob claimed that they were worried about lawsuits from artists they covered at some of the shows. I don't know why he brought this up - the shows were up for years with no lawsuits, and artists who would sue could sue over audience tapes as well. More importantly, any suits would be filed against Archive, not the Grateful Dead.

Later he gets to the real gist of it, "We need the revenue!"

Let's face it: Free downloads of near-professional quality recordings of classic shows were too good to be true and too good to last. Frankly, I'm one of those they're getting at - I probably wouldn't buy another Dick's Picks while Archive was available, except maybe a used copy, if I just had to have the show. I might not buy one anyway, but at least there's the possibility, I guess. It got weird when I was cursing every show that went DP or Vault since it was no longer available at Archive. That strikes a part of me as wrong, so I don't mind so much what they did. I've got more already than I have time or inclination to listen to in a month, and at least I got 1-22-78 (just) before the axe fell!

I suppose that's all rationalization, but hey: In the scheme of things, whether I can download another 72 or 73 Dark Star or Other One really doesn't matter.

"Can't talk to you without talking to me.
We're guilty of the same old thing.
Thinking a lot about less and less,
And forgetting the love we bring."

- Hunter/Garcia -

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Poster: doodle Date: Dec 6, 2005 12:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Amen brother. It's a bummer that they're gone, but we haven't lost a thing. We all had a year or better of free, EASY ACCESS sbd's to download at the touch of a button. There is no way that that did not hurt their sales (which I do feel are too expensive, mind you!)Times have changed, and they want/need to sell the boards. Let them! The auds are still here, and all those boards we downloaded are available for trade the old fashioned way. It's all cool, and we're all spoiled. We need to get over it and look at all the stuff we have and be happy we got it. And in so far as Phil's statement, I don't understand how everyone is making him out to be a god here. Now, I'm not attacking Phil, but all he said about this was "I didn't do it". He didn't offer you anything or any insight, and suddenly everyone thinks he made the grandest gesture of all time.I have kids and I know "I didn't do it" is rarely the answer I'm looking for at those times. Confusing.

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Poster: Cnick Date: Dec 6, 2005 9:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The boptoom line is that Phil is driving the bus and the sale to Musictoday - owned by Matthews - is the result. The boards are out there ands should remain available for download. Have you seen the new site - $17 to $22 for Flac downloads. Check out this article....

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5938040?rnd=1133963354107&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1348

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Poster: doodle Date: Dec 6, 2005 11:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link. I remember some of that talk circulating a couple of years ago when this article was written. I just wonder what has changed and how??

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Poster: iambillsmith Date: Jan 20, 2006 1:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

hey man, i saw you put a review of patchwork blu on the show for lumberjam. my name is bill i was the bass player for patchwork. we are actually done as a band, but myself, the keys player, and the drummer started up a new project with another drummer and guitar player. we are called fourth river. we have one show here on archive, though it is our first show so we arent REAL tight yet, but we are getting there. this is the only way i saw i could get in contact with you, thanks for the kind words.

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Poster: swedishhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

What a wonderul period it was to be able to download, listen and read commentary from fellow fans in the Grateful Dead section of Archive.org. Thank you Charlie Miller for all your wonderful, wonderful contributions - as well as the many others who contributed quality recordings for ours - the users who listened to and were turned on to the myriad of previously unheard and inaccesible recordings - this was quite a treat.

I am dissapointed in the GDOrgs decision - it would be helpful to hear their official side of the story. They may not feel they owe that to us, but I would hope they would consider this fan base one of their most perenial and thoughtful - if not perhaps influential - and to that end decide to officially convey their story as to why this decision was made at this stage in the game. Communication never hurts - non communication can. Due to this lack of communication, I am withholding judgement on whether or not I will support - in a monetary fashion - any future recordings. As long as I'm undecided vis a vis incommunication - I will refrain from doing so.

Went to see the captain
strangest I could find
Layed my proposition down
Layed it on the line;
I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Ship of fools
on a cruel sea
Ship of fools
sail away from me

It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
now I cannot share your laughter
Ship of Fools

Sincerely
Jamie

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Poster: tamb Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: SAD SAD DAY INDEED

Its A sad day when after a month of downloading, all this what the dead stood for is gone for now, Remember fellows, Jerry is watching all of you!!!

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Poster: ReddyKillowatt Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Yes i want to thank Charlie for those awesome shows. And everybody else involved in of having these great shows.

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Nov 22, 2005 8:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

On the 42nd anniversary of losing JFK we lose our beloved Grateful Dead.

Sure there will be other ways to gather the music, and it could be more fun, but the sad revelation is that deep within the heart of what was once the Grateful Dead is just darkness. Cold, impersonal,calculating greed. Timed no doubt to increase Christmas purchases the tainted remnant of our favorite band gives us the Thanksgiving week gift we'll never forgive.

RIP Grateful Dead spirit, and like with JFK we may never know who pulled the trigger.

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Poster: Kodos Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First of all I'd like to say, I'm officially torn.
As a musician I see the point of protecting your intellectual property, especially in this age of faster-than-instant gratification where everything is expected 5 minutes ago and for free or next to nothing. Anything "officially" released under the GD banner falls into this realm of intellectual property, imo. Don't post it, period. Being a musician is a job and I sure as hell aint going to show up to my job and give them my time for free.

That being said .... I remember an old interview with the band where the discussion came up of letting fans tape shows. The response was something along the lines of (sic) "Once we're done with it they can have it" regarding live performances. I can see where anything that exists in the Deads vault is their property. Pull that stuff if you like, its theirs, the recording work was done on their dime and they are entitled to whatever they can get for it. What I absolutely do not like is the pulling of ALL SBD's. Say I pay my way into a show, have a tapers ticket, sit in the tapers section and am under the impression that I can record this show with my personal equipment for no additional cost. I strike up a conversation with Dan Healy. He (a paid employee of the band, in charge of the sound mix) says "hey, put the mikes away, toss me a cord and I'll patch you in, man." The band has their own tape rolling and now you have a copy of what they are getting to put into their vault. Win, win. I see absolutely NO REASON to pull stuff like this that has a verified lineage. Although I admit, it would be next to impossible to police :/

This community has existed on the concept that the music was almost sacred. You trade, you give, you circulate the live experience to your friends and loved ones. Thus the Archive has done a service that has touched SO many people that it cannot be quantified. Thank you all!

I wish the Band nothing but good thoughts. PLEASE, a statement or something would be appreciated :)

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Poster: fungo Date: Dec 2, 2005 12:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Kodos says: "I can see where anything that exists in the Deads vault is their property."

Yes, the Dead DO own "anything that exists in the Deads vault"... i.e. the physical tapes. But what we're talking about here are recordings that exist outside that vault.

To suggest that the Dead "own" the MUSIC itself, though, would be a tragic misunderstanding of "intellectual property." Intellctual property is NOT "property," and artists do NOT "own" their creations. Rather, they are granted a very limited right to temporarily control the distribution of those creations, purely for the purpose of encouraging further creations. There are good reasons for this approach, and it is the breakdown of this wise and just system that's doing the most harm to creators today.

As it happens, much of the Dead's classic work should, by rights, be in the public domain by now. US copyright was originally less than 30 years... more than enough time for artists to profit adequately from their work. (That takes us up into the mid- to late-1970s - say, everything prior to Terrapin Station.) Attempting to control (and profit from) works for many decades after the original creators have died is a very recent perversion of "intellectual property."

I too am a content creator. I still get paid for CREATING content, just as I'm sure Kodos still gets paid for actually playing music. Whether either of us can expect to be paid indefinitely for the mere existence of this content is something that remains to be seen.

Most people do only get paid once for the work they do, you know. And the Dead did make a good living off ticket sales. There's no cosmic law that says they (or "GDM," a corporate entitly that had nothing to do with creating the music) should be allowed to reap endless profits from that same labor.

I think the Grateful Dead knew this: that all human creations ultimately belong to all of us. GDM clearly does not.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

A sad day indeed. I would love to hear the official word from the money grabbers on this issue.
Thanks to all involved with the Archive in hosting these great shows - it was great while it lasted. (of course there is still tons of great music here!!!)
I will certainly be boycotting all GD merchandise as well. I've spent way too much money on shows, commercially released cd's, shirts, etc to be happy about this latest development.
If I had the time I would love to copy all my Dick Pick's etc and give freely to everyone who doesn't have them just to stick it to the corporate entity that was at one time the Grateful Dead. I have always been against making copies of commercially realeased cd's, but I will certainly be doing this for local head friends who have been planning on making purchases. now i know what to give people for xmas.
Again, thanks to the archive for allowing me the opportunity to download about 150 gigs of GD shows.

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Poster: Pongo Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thankyou to archive.org for having provided this incredible service.

I had as much fun browsing the shows (and reviews) as I do listening to those I chose to download. Considering the vast amount of work that went into this project, would it not be reasonable to consider restoring what was there, with a message at the top right of each page: "This show not available for download"?

Surely all that work belongs to the Dead community, not the corporate entities?

I for one would still enjoy browsing the shows - even if I can't get them.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

All the show pages are still on the archive (if we dont have a hiccup) with all the reviews and such. this does belong to the dead community. but we did take the shows out of the search engine... this was a kludge to try to help keep searchers finding shows they can listen to.

If you can think of something else we should do, short of providing access again, please let us know.

-brewster

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Poster: raindog Date: Nov 23, 2005 5:53pm
Forum: etree Subject: Something you could do

How about setting up a simple database of dates, setlists and sources and allowing users to indicate that they are in possession of said show, facilitating person to person trades?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 24, 2005 12:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead trading resource

It already exists, since ~2000: http://db.etree.org
Specific to Grateful Dead shows: http://db.etree.org/bs_d.php?artist_key=2
Specific to Grateful Dead lossless filesets: http://db.etree.org/shncirc/gd

(The last resource has existed online in some form since early 1999.)

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-24 08:11:23

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Poster: Jeff_Skaggs Date: Nov 28, 2005 5:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The Grateful Dead has always been the most generous band on the planet, and they still are.

All of these recordings are still available, just not on archive.org

If you missed out on grabbing them here, so sorry - just go elsewhere.

Funny - I don't see anyone calling Phish a money-grubbing band for starting livephish.com or never allowing recordings to be posted on this site in the first place.

For the past 40 years, the Dead have given away EVERYTHING. This is very generous. If you missed the boat, you missed the boat. Simple as that. Get over it.

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Poster: fiyo fiyo Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

hey man.... where else can we get these shows? nugs has so very few, and i tried to find a few other sites... could someone please tell me where else i can find these shows, or another good selection of shows..... lol and if possible explain how to transfer or d/l these files... considering i'm computer illiterate... thanks a ton guys... i'd really appreciate it... peace man..

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Poster: foxomoxoa Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

GDlive.com still has a lot of shows. But if you've never used bittorrent, that's the way to go:

http://bt.etree.org/

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Poster: Slim075 Date: Nov 28, 2005 6:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

PHISH is NOT The Grateful Dead


as great as PHISH is, yes they are money grubbers
the fact is though that no one is calling PHISH money grubbers because this is not about PHISH

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Poster: fiyo fiyo Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

does anyone know any other sites with a good selection of shows? and if so what are they and how do they work?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"Please search the FAQs and forums using the box at the top of this page before posting questions in the event that your question has already been asked and answered in the past."

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 17:41:44

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Poster: Gizmology Date: Nov 30, 2005 6:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive


It's fun to see what people are saying. I can see both sides to the argument, but I have to say it is lame. We will still be able to find shows via torrents, but the archive site was SO much easier and well organized. But...as far as I'm concerned a soundboard is a soundboard.

Just because it is easier to trade via the net then it used to be back in the days of audio tape, that does not make it wrong. If anything, it can only HELP to spread the music and turn people on to the band. If they never had taping in the 1st place, they would not have achieved the level of success they had...not even close! Allowing taping was one of the smartest things the Dead ever did. This is one of the DUMBEST.

Besides, "official" releases are in HDCD (not a big deal unless you have a HDCD CD player...I do), and are of higher quality in general. So what's the big deal if someone wants a soundboard? We all had 'em on tape at one point anyway. It just forces trading practices back to the stone-age so-to-speak. Still easier than dubbing tapes, but still a time consuming pain in the ass.

If the Dead wanna continue to offer their downloads for sale, more power to them, but people should still have to option to trade instead. It's like when the music biz flipped out about tapes way back when because people would tape their albums. Then it freaked when people had the power to burn CDs, and finally it went ballistic over downloading.

Technology provides us with "better" media and in turn, the powers-that-be try to assume ALL power. This is so unwarranted...especially in the case of the Dead since the information being copied, burned, and/or downloaded was always FREE and people were never in danger of being sued because of copyright issues. It's always sad when a good thing goes bad. To the Dead I say, "remember where you came from! LSD was legal once-upon-a-time ago. Don't impose a mandatory minimum sentence for download 'offenders' for they are your fans, they are your children, they are...just like you. At least they used to be. You've changed.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 30, 2005 7:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

That is an absolutely beautiful post, friend :) !!!!
kudos

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Poster: Gizmology Date: Nov 30, 2005 7:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks. To quote Garcia from a Lunt-Fontaine 'Garcia On Broadway' show, "I's appreciates it!"

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Poster: sc-pierce Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you archive for everything you have done to share the music.

Hopefully, your site won't be boycotted because there is a lot of great up and coming bands here.

As far as the Dead goes...well, they just died. This is clearly about money. What a great way to give thanks to the fans - the people responsible for the band's popularity to begin with. They seem to have forgotten one key issue: no fans = no band = no money. Alienate the fans and you cut your income stream. I bet we'll see all the old SBDs for sale in the next couple weeks. Too bad. Sorry Jerry! RIP! Sorry for the decisions of a few that will forever tarnish the music you helped create.

To the fans:
If you have SBD copies there are other places to share. Please do so. Lossless copies are better than no copies at all and much better than paying for copies that were free last week. For fear of the moderator editing my comment I won't put the sites here. I, like many other posts, used the stream of most of the SBDs, but couple I do have I will share.

There are other good bands on this site. Experiment.

Peace.

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Poster: deadasreligon Date: Nov 30, 2005 10:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm 31 years old and back in the day I saw 30 dead shows at the impressionable ages of 18-21. It had an impact on me and provided me with a forum in which I knew I could always turn to a form of music that believed the world is a place not made of money and greed, but sharing and compassion for your neighbor. As I grew older I found that such a view of the world is naive and somewhat innocent. So as I aged so did that belief, however the music survived and was traded archived and that mentality was preserved within the confines of 2 hours in which sharing was allowed.

Now as you may know that is gone. Not because GDP put an end to archive.org, but because of what it really means. It means that Jerry's words: ""There's something to be said for being able to record an experience you've liked...My responsibility to the notes is over after I've played them. At that point I don't care where they go. They've left home you know." -- Jerry Garcia" mean nothing.

The music was so good because it embodied something. That something is gone, its an end of an era.

[moderated]

and archive thanks for providing this at least for awile

d

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 18:53:21

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Poster: jack's dad Date: Nov 30, 2005 10:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

in the end...if you or anyone else on this anger train feels it necessary to use language, inuendo or even the slightest suggestion that they are owed anything by anyone, be it an artist, a musician, an experience, or anything related to this recent GD/Llama situation...well....you all should wake up and stop being so selfish.

It is in the end just music.

Yes, it may be the element that binds us together, the jones in your day...but come on, lets be serious...we all have had the privilege of attending (well, maybe not all..maybe it is a majority of this who are complaining that never had the opportunity yet feel that they are due something)...in any case...stop for god's sake and realize that we have had an opportunity and continue to share in the growth of a medium which binds us all...music...and as we all know the dead were the muse, they were the forefathers of todays generosity. so embrace the generosity, be thankful for what we have been given and ask your friends to continue to share in the glory.''don;t let the internet be your lazy river road.

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Poster: Diggity Dank Date: Nov 26, 2005 4:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Have any Intellectual Property attorneys who love the GD (or people who love the GD with IP attorney friends)looked into whether the GDs music can still be controlled/protected by the GD (thru copyright) as it was once freely available in the public domain. I wonder if they are asserting rights they don't have. Obviously, the archive doesn't want to ruffle the GDs feathers (the archive has enought to deal with, and I'm sure wouldn't want to spend any money on lawyers here), but I wonder if another party who wanted to set up the old sbds for distribution couldn't legally do it. The dead probably wouldn't like it, but I'm curious: 1) whether enforceable copyrights exist for all the live shows that were pulled down; 2)enough time may have passed that many of the sbds are not protected by copyright; 3) can the gd's own policy (allowing for the free distribution of music without any specific requirements except for keeping it non-commercial) be rescinded without the GD acting to reestablish the copyrights, and did they do anything legally to protect this music? Or are the GD merely barking loud and hoping we all back down. I do not advocate acting in any way that the GD doesn't like, but I am geniunely curious whether the GD have the law on their side...If they don't it might be a good angle to get them to at least re-OK the sbds that were previously available, thus preserving the archive as it was before the Thanksgiving announcement. Even if the archive doesn't grow, that result would be more than sufficient for me!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 26, 2005 5:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=48659

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Poster: rrollerball Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

SO WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE?

A) * Audience recordings will be restored as they were before-- for download and streaming.

* Soundboard recordings will be available streaming only.

OR
B) Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.


i think A was posted first so can someone clarify what its going to be, thanks

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Poster: kingharvest Date: Nov 28, 2005 6:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

My letter to GD Powers that Be...

Hello. I am sorry to add to your list of complaints on this matter, but I'm afraid I am another one of those users of the Archive was is deeply dismayed by the recent decision to pull all the soundboard shows from the site.

I must tell you that I am 51 years old and only recently acquired the technology to even begin downloading the shows. Like most people who use the site, I first downloaded the shows I had personally seen (not all that many, but I did manage to grab the show in Buffalo in 1973!) and I must confess it was one heck of a blast to hear that show again. It was just how I remembered it! It started off strong, sort of lagged a bit in the middle and finished exceptionally strong. '

Afterward I downloaded about 20 other shows as well, listening for example to the mid-seventies (by then I was not listening to the band all that much) and was absolutely stunned at how great those shows were. Before The Incident I was working my way through the May 77 shows and the three or four I heard were just amazing. In fact, some of the best music I have ever heard. Not just the best I have heard heard by the Dead, but simply the best.

My kids started out teasing my endlessly about my new obsession, but I soon gained the upper hand. First my son (a 21 year-old-singer-songwriter) came into my room and asked what in the world I was listening to. The Dead, I said. He sort of groaned. He knew his time was coming. And then my 19-year-old daughter heard the solo on Playin' and said: I guess it is only a matter of time before I start listening to them...

And it is only a matter of time before they start listening to them. And it is only a matter of time before they realize, as have so many before them, but that each and every show is like a freaking snowflake or a fingerprint. None are quite the same.

Now, I know that some people think it quite bizarre that we might collect dozens of shows, but that is in fact the whole point of the Grateful Dead. They allowed people to tape shows for so long because they were well-aware that each show was unique and that that uniqueness should be preserved for posterity. They knew that once they allowed someone to tape a show, that show, in essence, belonged to not only the taper, but anyone else who might hear the show. Not the music, but the show. And that is how it is, and how it will remain, with or without the Archive.

But I do hope that the fans of today and tomorrow will be able to discover the music of the Grateful Dead through places like the Archive. I hope that they, like so many of us, will hear these shows in their rough and tumble versions and go out and buy ALL of the official releases. That is what we do. And that is what we should certainly continue to do.

But honestly, if you folks piss off this group, this group that is in every real sense your one true market, things are going to get dirty. You will have tarnished, perhaps irreparably, the one true fanbase popular music has ever seen. Or perhaps ever will see.

I hope that does not happen. I really do.

James

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Poster: tpwDawg Date: Nov 30, 2005 8:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Too bad. I know I'll miss the archive and what I've been able to download, I'll appreciate. Mostly the shows I went to and several other from the sixties and seventies.

I'll miss it. Just like I missed the shows after Jerry died.

What I won't miss, is the whining I'm reading here. The Dead were gracious enough to allow people to tape and allow this to continue as long as they have. They're musicians, they feed their families by selling, music.

Getting older, I can see why they might want to secure their legacies for their children and grandchildren and pass on some money. Why would we begrudge them that ? If that is in fact what they're doing.

I didn't see too many "deadheads" on tour at shows giving their sodas, beers, falafel bean sprout surprise, and tee shirts away when they were counting on making money to get to the next show.

I've enjoyed the freebies. I'm very GRATEFUL for them. But never once did I think I was OWED THEM by the band. Okay maybe once, but I swear that must have been something in the falafel bean sprout surprise.

I'm picking that up from these posts and I caught a lot of that vibe at shows. What a paradox. GRATEFUL DEAD fans being so UNGRATEFUL and feeling as if they're entitled to something.

Listen to the music .......

"It all rolls into one
and nothing comes for free
There's nothing you can hold
for very long
And when you hear that song
come crying like the wind
it seems like all this life
was just a dream"
--- Stella Blue

Now it's time to wake up from that dream.

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Poster: lagmeister Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

My sentiments exactly.

Many thanks to the Dead, and to Archive.org for having made such a tremendous resource available to us. Personally, I'll pay for high quality downloads, esp. the early stuff.

There are a lot of people at GDP that have devoted their lives to the Dead. We've been lucky enough to be the recipients. It's only fair that they should be able to profit from the back catalog. After all, these are people, who get sick, get married, retire, etc. and all of that costs money.

For the happiness they've brought us, they certainly deserve all of that they can get.

Special thanks to the Archive.org team, Diana, et al. You've weathered the storm with grace, as always. Keep up the excellent work.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Look, I all think as DeadHeads we're on the same side here. I just object to the thousands of us who were upset by this decision being labelled as "whiners."

It is a simple matter of expressing one's dissent, and more than anything I think those who objected to the SBD's being pulled did so as much b/c of the principle of the action than the actual inability to access them from this site.

The economic argument, that the band members have a right to secure their "kids' futures" or what have you, has been addressed as well. There is no question that purchases made through GD.NET, were, for this DeadHead at least, INCREASED by the shows made available on this site. Before I found this site, I only ocassionaly peeked into GD.NET b/c the DP releases were so slow in coming (one every 3 months, I think). But reading reviews of shows on this site, being able to DL great sounding recordings, etc., re-charged by Dead battery, and I found myself going to the official web site more and more to PURCHASE items found there...for the excellent quality, packaging ,etc.

It is also very important to remember that the Dead always said, and Phil's comments now reflect the fact, that this has always been a partnership between band and fans, moreso than any musical act in history. Had it not been for 1) the band allowing the taping and 2) the Heads actively circulating those tapes, the Dead would never have become to monster touring and money-making giant they were. Don't forget also that Jerry's daughter thanked the Heads who gathered for his memorial in SF that without them she would have had to put herself through college working at McDonald's. Clearly the fans gave a lot to a band that never would have been able to continue doing what they do solely through record sales and radio play.

To suggest that fans who traveled incredible distances over nearly 4 decades to see the shows and now would appreciate access to the best quality versions of those shows via modern realities represnted by sites like this as somehow feeling "entitled" is inaccurate at best and a cheap shot at worst.

Not one person posting to the forums on this site ever to my knowledge complained about a DP, vault, DVD or any other pending release being pulled from the archive. But to remove all the SBD's and leave just AUD shows for streaming only--no downloading--IS in fact a philosphical and practical shift in the very essence of what fostered the band-fan partnership to begin with. To object to that, and to ask reasonably why it's being done, is not "whining"...it's a reflection of passionate fans who CARE about the music expressing themselves and their displeasure--that such devoted fans are willing to disagree with that band is indicative of the smart and independent spirit of the fans.

I would agree to the "whining" assessment only if one expresses the displeasure in a hostile or unncessarily profane manner. Otherwise, telling the people who object to the policy to "shut up and stop whining" is a lazy way of advocating a kind of censorship I doubt Jerry for one would support.

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Poster: Packy Date: Dec 1, 2005 4:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I second that emotion!

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Poster: dubspgh Date: Dec 1, 2005 4:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I am thrilled that after all these years, there are still fans who care enough to share their opinions on the band. I am convinced that if everyone who had the opportunity the band play is able to combine oral tradition with the availability of so many shows that have been preserved for posterity, then the impact that the boys have had on a few generations of humanity might continue for decades to come. The fact that the band shared their intellectual property so freely, with so many, for so long should be celebrated by everyone. The fact that the family is facing the issue of how to provide for those to come put them in the position that resulted in the very temporary attempt to limit access to the thousands of hours of joyful noise that is the band's legacy should not cloud anyone's gratitude for the many years of wonder and excitement that the boys brought to the world. Peace.

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Poster: luvlight72 Date: Dec 2, 2005 2:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Phil's Response

Here is Phil's response to what happened. As I hoped he had nothing to do with this decision. Hopefully he will do something to rectify the situation. I'm kinda confused on how the decision can be made about music he created, without his permission. I guess it shows the true reality who "The Dead" are in 2005. Get your Ipods ready. Itunes will have all the shows available for $$$$

http://www.phillesh.net/philzonepages/friends_stuff/hotline.html

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Poster: nikos Date: Dec 2, 2005 6:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

Hi there, this is a confused Deadhead from Greece.. I have not been able to form a clear picture of what actually happened in what order, who said what, etc. I've read messages by many people heaping abuse on Phil, yet on his site he dissociates himself from the decision.. I read Barlow said it was Weir, Hart, and Kreutzmann, others say it was Jerry's widow.. Is there a link to a clear exposition of the whole sorry affair?
The GD have a right of course to handle their music as they like.. Though restricting the archive seems a really bad decision in terms of their non-music legacy and commercially, as many folks here have pointed out..
I would like to add only that if Mickey Hart is the driving force behind the decision, there should not be a problem: He's not on the best Grateful Dead shows, those from 1972-74. When he returned in 1976 the band had to accomodate a second drummer and changed direction (the free-flowing days of the sixties when the 2-drummer format worked, were long gone), to the detriment of the music. The rest of the band can make those 1972-74 shows available and we will all be happy..

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 2, 2005 10:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Timeline links

Hi Nikos, indeed so much has occurred that it's hard to keep straight! Our FAQ here is still even an update behind (hope to revise this weekend).

Here are two excellent summary links:
http://deadnews.blogspot.com/2005/12/grateful-dead-download-controversy.html
http://www.themusicneverstopped.net/archives/2005/12/gdlma_the_final.html

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-03 06:52:40

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Poster: nikos Date: Dec 3, 2005 7:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Timeline links

Dear Diana,
Thank you for the links; the deadnews link in particular does indeed clarify the sequence of events.

Maybe this is a good point to summarise the arguments:

THE GD ORGANISATION SIDE
- Band members are normal people with normal material needs and have themselves and families to support now that they are not touring.
[Comment: and may have adopted expensive life-styles that are catching up with their finances].
- Dick's Picks and official downloads are (and will be) available at reasonable prices.
[Comment: the Dick's Picks sets are very good value indeed. Not so the downloads, especially for people in countries where high-speed internet is still expensive (like my country, Greece)]
- Tape trading in the old days fostered a community spirit and contact between people, unlike impersonal downloads on a PC. Downloading entire years on hard discs is not in the spirit of collecting favorite shows, which is how this started.
[Comment: I think they may have a point there]

THE DEADHEAD SIDE
- The music has always been freely available in the community, and the community has generally treated it with respect, without making money from it. Why change now?
- Most deadheads buy official GD music on CDs and DVDs and other merchandise. I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that total sales are far, far higher than the average for comparable acts or artists. GD fans form a demographically very attractive market segment (right age group, high percentage of university graduates, generally affluent) which the GD organisation has now managed to alienate.

QUESTION: TO BOYCOTT THE GDSTORE OR NOT TO BOYCOTT?
I guess that is a subjective decision. For my part, if they put out a deluxe version of May 8, 1977 with a 20-page booklet, unissued photos and signed t-shirt, I will NOT buy (though I probably would before the archive affair). If they show they still care for the real fans, say by giving us October 23, 1972, a Dark Star from the golden days which the people in the GD organisation must know most fans don't have in decent sound, then I would.

Nikos,
Athens, Greece

This post was modified by nikos on 2005-12-04 02:29:55

This post was modified by nikos on 2005-12-04 03:01:31

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Dec 2, 2005 6:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

We're all as confused as you are. There has been no real official explanation. Phil says he was not involved. Barlow implicated "the drummers." McNally said the shows were pulled b/c the LMA did not reflect Grateful Dead values (whatever that means), but then had to quickly backpedal when they decided to let the AUDs go back up as downloads and the SBDs as streams. A new GD website popped up yesterday, with hints that more shows from the archive will soon be available for download at a price. There are several online petitions and a call to boycott all GDM merchandise until the GD recordings are restored to the LMA. Right now, it is not entirely clear what is going on or who is ultimately responsible.

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Poster: dubspgh Date: Dec 2, 2005 2:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

Thanks for the head's up. I think people sometimes confuse generosity with entitlement. As to who is making decisions for the band, without including the input from the surviving memebers, well that's just bad business.

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Poster: tpwDawg Date: Dec 1, 2005 1:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm humbled by your reason and polite way of telling me to stop whining about the whining. ;)

I suppose we're all expressing grief in our own way. Afterall, we've lost a convenient place to access some of the best music human ears have been fortunate to hear.

Seems we're on the same page when it comes to some of the more cantankerous methods of expression.

Either way, it's a shame, but it is what it is and I don't begrudge the "estate's" decisions. I'm grateful to them, the band, and the men and women running this site.

PEACE to ALL

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Poster: dwill1188 Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

are there ANY grateful dead shows available without using stream? the damn stream methoad does NOT work. and if it all has now been switched to stream, why the shortage of shows? very confused/concerned here.....

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Poster: toast6977 Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This reminds me. There is a flower, that grows, and grows and grows, but it only blooms one time in its lifespan.

I think this is that flower, and I don't think it's blooms are very pretty.

Someone owes us an apology, and I don't think it's anyone in the band. (i could be wrong)

And, when it all boils down to the money, I won't feel so bad if at least the remaining members of the Grateful Dead get the money..

May anyone else be cursed with damnation.

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Poster: swedishhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

CRAP! how frustrating. what a wonderful, wonderful, WONDERFUL treat that was to have while it lasted. Come on guys - take what you need - leave the rest. This feels horrible. I was having so much fun. Now it's gone, gone, gone..nothin' left to do but smile, smile & count the money, honey.

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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Jumpin Jimminy you mean I'm not the only Swedish Deadhead out there? This really sucks.
Skol!!
Kevin Anderson
Vermontdeadhead

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Poster: Cosmic_C Date: Nov 26, 2005 2:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive


I'm just very grateful :) to IA to let me get a nice 1st gen version of hissy tapes I'd listened to for years. I got 15 shows, and since IA helped get the pandora out of the box, everything is out there, just not as easy to find. IA was an easy target. Millions of potential show hosters, not so easy.


My general m.o. in regards to about *any* music is to find the mp3 ahem anywhere, and if I like it, seek out the lossless version (aka CD) and buy it. Since the IA GD 'preview' is no longer available for my convenient free download, oh well. Rarely will I buy a album sound unheard.

Just makes it a bit more difficult to find, but the irony is that IA users that saved the files will likely network it all back together in lists, outside of the control of the parent company. Like in the older days, except now there's a bunch of primo soundboards circlulating wild..

Good going, fellas. Should have given everybody a week or said 'as of Jan 1st'.. now you've got a bunch of conflicted feeling heads out there, some who will go 'oh well, gotta buy it now', others continue their free-(down)loading ways.

They could have done this so much more graceful than this.





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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I would like to thank the Archive for all the great help they provide me and everyone else getting great music from great bands.

With that said, I do think that losing the right to download boards from the Archive is not the best decision that could have been made in this situation, and I hope GDP reconsiders.

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Poster: ld2 Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Archive - Thanks for the tunes! I hope the real reasons behind the policy change can be shared with the dead community. Until then, I won't speculate. Ain't no time to hate.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Given the conversations, I think we have said what we could and should. What we are optimizing for is to bring as much access to great works as we can and give all involved time and space to learn.

I realize this is vague, for which I apologize. Most of all, I am sorry that there is a lot less great music on the site.

-brewster

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Poster: timray-wcupa Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Greetings, all--

I want to thank the Archive for all that they did in providing us with this invaluable resource. While this resource has been appreciated by all of us to the utmost level, I had a particular appreciation for this resource because I am an academic and had/have been using these recordings as a resource in my scholarship on the Dead (something that I think speaks directly to the overall purpose of the Archive as an online library). The fact that these shows have been removed is disappointing, to say the least. Like many of you, I was actually in the middle of downloading a show (from October 1968) when the music stopped, so to speak. What a drag.

Since it now looks like we're back to the pre-IA days, I'd like to say that I do have more than 1,000 hours of shows from pre-Dead through 1995 and have cataloged them in a MS Excel file and would be willing to trade shows with anyone who is interested. These shows are in MP3 format, so that probably eliminates about half those who would be interested. Also, I don't have a whole lot of time for burning, so you'd have to be patient with me. Nevertheless, the silver lining in all this is that we as Deadheads may get to know each other better as a community as a result of this decision. If you're in the S.E. PA area, we could even meet up and get to know each other and build some friendships and listen to some shows together while we're copying each other's shows. Deadheads are nothing if not resourceful, and if we are resourceful, we may find some good that can come from this seemingly shortsighted decision.

If you'd like a copy of my Excel file, please e-mail me at

deadheadtimo@gmail.com

Tim

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Poster: shakedown_04092@yahoo.com Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you SOOOOOO much to all who have made this site one of the best things to happen to me music-wise the past couple of years. You DO deserve a standing ovation for your generosity & kindness by allowing us to have such an incredible access to so many shows.

That said, my initial feeling was not quite that of the day Jerry passed, but it was in the same block. I am horrified.

I would love to help work with anyone else who wants to try to get something else started, whether it be trading hard drives, starting a new site, or resorting to the oldschool way of postage & blanks. Please let me know where to go or what to do - I need direction & want to help. Thanks. Benjamin M. St. Clair

shakedown_04092@yahoo.com

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Nov 26, 2005 5:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Why play nice with the dead when they won't play nice with us?

because the files aren't deleted. they are just 'dark' .. the shows may come back some day, and when the GDP says so, the shows can all come back in a click of a mouse. If you don't play nice, that day may never come. if you do, it all might come back..

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Poster: Dr.Rock Date: Nov 25, 2005 3:19pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES

I am very sad to lose such a wonderful resource. I want to thank everyone who made this possible while it lasted.

This site was the THE GREATEST.

I got about 200 shows while it lasted, and I am willing to share!

We we all have to find a new way to keep the spirit of this community alive.

I am looking forward to knowing you all on a more personal basis, because sharing shows will now have to be done differently.

It would be cool if we could keep adding to the collection of reviews, as I find them entertaining an informative. Maybe we could keep the reviews somewhwere else, where the could be added to.

I'll miss you all... until we meet again

Thank You, Matt in Humboldt

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Poster: gypsybird Date: Nov 27, 2005 5:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

hey matt in humboldt!

i'm in arcata, i'd just recently begun to rebuild my collection (having lost most of my tapes over the years)... i'd love to have a local contact for trades, or blanks, or whatever...
shoot me an email, raveninflightATsbcglobalDOTnet

thanks~

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 26, 2005 12:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It would be cool if we could keep adding to the collection of reviews, as I find them entertaining an informative. Maybe we could keep the reviews somewhwere else, where the could be added to.

Yes, if you look at the very parent post in this thread you are replying to, you will find the plan that includes that idea. http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-26 08:17:49

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Removing the items that you have is the furtherest thing possible from optimizing the archieve.

What was here before this negative event occured was a great source for listening to music, downloading music, reading the excellent posts about how great the show was and the experience of those who attended the show. This brought people together. Today's actions only serves to tare them apart. And done on the day before thanksgiving shows no heart, soul or class.

That being said hopefully the powers that be will provide us with some information on why this action was taken and any steps that can be made to remedy the situation.

I for have never traded before and this site opened up a whole new world to me. I would gladly pay a fee to bring back the music that was so abruptly taken away from. I can only hope that something is being discussed and worked on so that we can get back to enjoying the music.

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Poster: connorscanlan Date: Dec 17, 2005 3:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Howdy yall,
well im only 18 an dive got a decent tape collection...long story about that.....but im just so bummed out about this. i just dfont understand why they did it...its just such a huge part of the community, and its not like we dotn spend money [mod] ive bought t shirts stickers box sets...i feel betrayed...i dunno, but my boss told me the other day that bob changed his mind? is this true?

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-17 11:18:05

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 17, 2005 3:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD FAQ

http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#215

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Poster: macfawlty Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I agree wholeheartedly. I really don't expect anything for free and enjoyed downloading over 100 shows over the last 6 weeks since I was turned on to the archive. I am GRATEFUL. But the music must be made available. Archive had it all there in one place, organized well. I would gladly pay for shows, but even if the GDStore makes a bunch of shows available for a fee, it would likely be only table scraps by comparison. I am not sure the archive would really quite dig on a pay-for-download model as an adjunct to their site, but it would be the easiest way to go if someone has to get paid.

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Poster: jcroot Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

actually, check out db.etree.org for a huge number of friendly traders who will do blanks and postage and all sort of other scenarios. in fact you can start with me if you like. that way you don't have to pay anything - except for the blanks and postage.

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hey. That's very cool. How should I get started. I would gladly send you discs and pay for postage.

6-16-74 and 6-18-74 are two shows that I love but never had the chance to download.

Thanks for your help.

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 23, 2005 4:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I know its a small consolation but the nugs.net stash has your 6-16-74 show... mp3 may be better than nothing

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Poster: boomer1987 Date: Nov 23, 2005 4:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I have pretty much everything from that summer tour, SDB. njdfan@hotmail.com

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 5:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hey bro. Thanks. I just sent an e-mail.

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Poster: jcroot Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

send me an email and the details and I can help once I get back from thanksgiving and all.

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 23, 2005 4:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Yeah, I'll ditto that... how can we contact one another?

Someone earlier suggested a yahoo interest group, or is the a better way?

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Poster: Hatta Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Sorry, that's just not good enough. This level of secrecy is just further proof that either the Dead don't care about their fans, or the Archive operators don't care about their users. All you will get for this secrecy is conspiracy theories.

This dirty laundry needs to be aired. How are we to know who to write if we don't know who's decision it is? How do we even know what the relevant arguments are?

Honesty is the best policy.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

i would find it very hard to believe that the Archive operators do not care about their users. Its most likely not their fault the shows got pulled right after getting good publicity in Time mag.

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Poster: Hatta Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Then why the secrecy? Whose reputation are they protecting? Don't they realize that keeping this under cover damages EVERYONE's reputation?

Even if the GDM asked that their correspondance not be shared, that's not legally binding. Just a nice request. Why play nice with the dead when they won't play nice with us?

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Poster: Jason Blackmore Date: Nov 23, 2005 6:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I bet this is part of the deal with ITUNES. Now What, am I going to have to pay $0.99 for every "Dark Star" I want to hear. Come on folks, You can start charging for things that are already free. I will lose alot of respect for the whole GD organization if this continues and doesn't return to it's old status. It cost the Grateful Dead NOTHING to host these "Bits of memories" on archive.org so it's not like they are saving money here.

I read from GANS BLOG that GD organization had a layoff and cut one of there road crew...well guess what, You don't tour, then members of the Road Crew have to be let go, That's just fact, Period...It has nothing to do with the recordings at all and I don't feel like me downloading or not downloading shows made any difference in the situation at all...

We already have to pay for "The Dead" recordings, Ratdog, and the 30+ Dick's Picks that are out there (and I know that alone is more then 95% of others bands whole catalogs). Folks, We gladly by the Dick Picks and studio albums to support the band....DON'T CAPITALIZE ON THE AUDIO RECORDINGS now...or we will turn our backs on the once liberal band that now has turned into capitalist trying to squeeze every ounce out of a fan base that supported it through thick and thin...

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 6:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

good point..the downloads got me back into the grateful dead music and prompted me to "purchase" I have no idea how much $$ I have already spent on the boys. and my girlfriend said to me see it is all about the money..bobby why sell out to I-tunes you 89kjjh82667868....

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Poster: sfgmd Date: Nov 26, 2005 2:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

All good things come to an end (ie:Napster). I have downloaded many shows and have purchased many more through the years. In some shows certain songs are absolutely tremendous and others mediocre. You can not find that when purchasing Dick's Picks. This change is painful and I would suspect Jerry would role over in his grave. If this is policy from Grateful Dead merchandising, is it because sales of Dicks' Picks has gone down? These downloads were not perfect but they were fun. If this was policy from GDM then no one who used this site should purchase another show. We download because we love to listen. It was special and different, not to be resold by us to others. I hope those who are responsible will read what others have written and rethink this policy change. We all thought that the Dead and their organization were different than mainstream recording publishers. What's next, charging Dark Star Orchestra for playing Dead music? We can only hope that this will change and that there is hope for society in general.

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"What's next, charging Dark Star Orchestra for playing Dead music?"

OMG, don't give anyone any ideas....I would hate to see war in the streets.......

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Poster: dipyaman Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

VERY VERY SAD TO HEAR THIS. Jerry must be turning in his grave. How can they do this. Are The Dead turning corporate too??? Heading on the Bush Highway to Halliburtons Iraq for oil and avida dollars???

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Poster: Honest Injun Date: Nov 27, 2005 1:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hey now,

Take $6 of the money you are saving by boycotting and pick up a kind dove car magnet for peace at www.peacepositive.net

And remember, when Jerry was still around, they could afford to give the music away because they were selling a ton of concert tickets. Now the boys need every penny they can get. I, for one, will continue to support the boys who have given me more than I could ever repay with mere money.



Attachment: darkcar.jpg

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Poster: MttnDew Date: Nov 23, 2005 4:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Make your boycott official!! Sign the petition!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition-sign.html?

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Poster: Paucus Date: Nov 23, 2005 5:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

People,
this is getting absurd. Keep on truckin'...
We should all just be grateful all the tapes and soundboards had been easily available for such a long time. They still are out there, you can still get them, all of them.
No one knows for sure why this was done. Perhaps they had good reasons.. until we know, move on.
Peace

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Poster: Christopher J Date: Nov 23, 2005 5:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

With all due respect, Paucus, the GD should be equally grateful---perhaps moreso!---that they had such a loyal fan base that stuck with them for years and years and years and was willing to part with their hard-earned money (and lots of it) when times weren't quite so good (i.e. prior to about 1986 or so). They really should have guaged what the reation would be by taking something away that was free. It's not like they decided against it right from the get-go; rather, they made a conscious decision to take away a free service because it could potentially generate revenue for them in the future. I think everyone's point is that if Bob, Bill, Phil, and Mickey want to bring this down to money, then let's try to get the service back through witholding ours; that is, exercising the principal of consumer sovereignty within a free market. I could give you 10 examples off the top of my head when consumers bound together to enact change within a market. I think the feedback this issue has generated really shows how much this music really, truly does mean to people.

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Poster: hungrydawg Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: sad day indeed

To LMA folks and contributors: what a beautiful project and thank you all so much.

To the band and management: based on the comments I see here from many of your fans, it is clear that some feel betrayed. I think an explanation of your decision would help. It does seem contrary to your taping policy. The only real changes from the old days are 1) the internet made the exchange of your recorded live music much more efficient and prolific and 2) you started selling live recordings on a large scale basis. It follows then that you basically are rethinking your policy out of greed. I want to believe that is not true, so please...provide us with another explanation.

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Poster: Doc Hollywood Date: Nov 29, 2005 12:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: sad day indeed

Note John Barlow's previous comments on internet music "commerce":

http://homes.eff.org/~barlow/EconomyOfIdeas.html


Anyone else wonder what his take on this turn of events is?

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Poster: backslider Date: Nov 22, 2005 1:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: sad day indeed

Well Said and a hearty hear here!

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Poster: DaveJuggBass Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

To all fellow Deadheads,
Until the band releases an official statement, please refrain from jumping to conclusions about the loss of the band's concerts on the Archive.
If it is strictly a for profit move by the GDM people, then yeah we have a valid reason to feel betrayed by the band we loved that said in essence "once we're done with the show then you can have it."
My opinion is that they (Grateful Dead Inc.) should let us enjoy what we had going. We're all getting older, and these personal recording collections are the best way to keep this music alive and cherished for years to come not only for us fans but for GDM Inc.
Let GDM Inc. keep doing what their doing, I enjoy the Dick's Picks recording quality and don't mind paying for a good product or some other item in the "official Dead store". God bless them and let them continue that. But please don't become hypocritical and change your bootleg policy after all these years. Say it ain't so!
So I'm waiting for an official statement on why now after all these years and all the support the fans have given to the band to GET THEM TO WHERE THEY ARE TODAY, did this 180 degree turn happen.
If the organization needs the money that bad please say so. Is it because they're looking toward semi-retirement, touring less, and need all available revenue sources under their control for a comfy retirement plan for all surviving band members and their staff incuding families? Hey be honest, from what I've come to understand this organization was never really good at managing their money.....maybe they really do need the $$$$$$$
Don't rush to judgement until the Dead give an official reason for this mess. If they need the money that bad let them just say so. But don't forget the fans who got you this far.
I love this band and all the tremendous music they produced and continue to produce. May they have many more years of doing so.
God bless us all.

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Poster: clamdigger Date: Nov 26, 2005 2:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Itunes????

I just took a look at the GDM site and they have started a download only service (which is fine) but it appears that it is clearly linked to Itunes as well as RealPlayer. Itunes will soon become the biggest player in the music business and this is a big move my them to approach the Dead.

There will soon be a bit-torrent site that will mirror this service but it will be harder to establish the quality control that existed with archive.

Let GDM know you want nothing to do with Itunes!

If you are on this site you are capable of converting files to your ipod w/o assistance anyway.

my 2 cents.

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Poster: CatfishJohn Date: Nov 26, 2005 6:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I have been a fan since 1978, the whole community is bothered by this. The spirit of love and the age of social revolution was bound to be victomized in some ways by money mongering. But by Phil???? Doesn't Phil have enough money yet? Or is it control? Why would he care? I will now boycott any show that Phil is in.
Jerry if you can, please help us now!

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Poster: Gratefulmjh Date: Nov 26, 2005 9:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I am thankful that most of the Grateful Dead's concerts have been available here for sometime. That time has now pasted. But really the music will always be free. I have so many shows, and so many friends (Deadheads) with shows that we'll never have enough time to listen to all of them anyway. Back to trades and BnP, and human contact for that matter.

For the life of me I cannot understand why so many "Deadheads" that have been collecting and trading shows for 20+ years think this is such an evil act. How unGRATEFUL is that lot. So I guess you can be bitter and start petitions against the people we've all cared about for oh so long. I guess we can forget all the wonderful memories, and look to see who we can blame for taking away what was rightfully ours?

Not me. I will be forever Grateful. And I will continue to share the music I have, and seek the same from others. As for the haters, fine, go find another band that will allow all the things that the Grateful Dead have. Maybe the next show will have less people and more room for dancing. Peace and Thanks boys. It was a Hell of Ride!!!

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Poster: P-Train Date: Nov 26, 2005 10:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Money between friends is a sure way to destroy a friendship.

I feel a loss for the upcoming generations if this is the way GDP view the future.

It’s sad that it’s not “about the music” anymore to the remaining members of the Grateful Dead.

Hopefully something good can be achieved soon.

Thanks to Brewster, Matt Vernon and all those who had a hand in helping share the music.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

To the Archive Library, you guys have done a great job.

To the Grateful Dead, $hame on you.

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Poster: mrG Date: Nov 28, 2005 12:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Shame maybe, but definately a lack of imagination, and maybe that is telling of itself. Was there an offer of "special edition" dvds with additional value-added material to entice you to buy rather than the (considerable) bother to burn your own? No. Was there a new distribution method to effortlessly open this content into the burgeoning iPod network for a small convenience fee? No.

Was there even a word of official explanation, an apology by the band or, dare I dream it, a thank-you-all-for-keeping-us-famous?

Not to my knowledge, no.

Thing is, for all these faux pas, GD are still megaparsecs beyond the best of the other rockers. Neil Young won't give you anything for free unless you buy a certain O/S, John Cougar will sue you if you post just his lyrics, and the list doesn't stop there.

The thing to do is not to bitch at the greed, but rather to turn away, to dig into those other tens of thousands of bands who do have a clue, find the gems in there, and do your very utmost to fill all available outbound bandwidth telling every and anyone you can what's good and worth the bother.

Because apparently GD no longer is.

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Poster: kcjibberjabber Date: Nov 28, 2005 3:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First off, a huge thanx to the archives for the immense database of GD shows and all the rest in the library. Its been a blast being able to search through the shows and read all the fun lovin posts. For whats its worth id like to share my 2cents and post my thoughts & observations as a grateful fan:
"....the funny thing is, Jerry & the rest of the band wre a bunch of cynical,shit-talking,dark humored guys. A band of pirates really. and they were being followed around by these tofu-eating love people....." ( Trixie Garcia, RS 971)
I dunno what all the fuss is about. Do people remember what trading was like before the archives? Remember what a post-office looks like? I mean, remember getting all excited about finally getting that fatty package of those tapes/discs? So if Phil & his Friends( debra) are setting up a retirement? Hey, we scored 2yrs worth off free,unlimited downloads of some of the most amazing music ever made at some of the highest quality known to man. Did I mention it was all free?

".... but they forgot that the musicians needed to make a living to..." ( Bob Weir, Film Fest.Express)
....WE WILL SURVIVE... & ...THANK YOU FOR A REAL GOOD TIME.....

So here's my email addie to set up some trades:
boogiesessions@yahoo.com I have about 1000hrs off archives. 85% is SBD. peace, KC

















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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 28, 2005 1:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I agree there's tons of other bands out there besides the Dead, I mean they were a great band but they are definitly not the end all be all of all music.

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Poster: Slim075 Date: Nov 28, 2005 1:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"I mean they were a great band but they are definitly not the end all be all of all music"

I would have to dissagree
they are most deffinately the BE ALL of Music
I don't know about the end all, but they have
the BE ALL taken care of

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Poster: swedishhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 2:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

What a wonderul period it was to be able to download, listen and read commentary from fellow fans in the Grateful Dead section of Archive.org. Thank you Charlie Miller for all your wonderful, wonderful contributions - as well as the many others who contributed quality recordings for ours - the users who listened to and were turned on to the myriad of previously unheard and inaccesible recordings - this was quite a treat.

I am dissapointed in the GDOrgs decision - it would be helpful to hear their official side of the story. They may not feel they owe that to us, but I would hope they would consider this fan base one of their most perenial and thoughtful - if not perhaps influential - and to that end decide to officially convey their story as to why this decision was made at this stage in the game. Communication never hurts - non communication can. Due to this lack of communication, I am withholding judgement on whether or not I will support - in a monetary fashion - any future recordings. As long as I'm undecided vis a vis incommunication - I will refrain from doing so.

Went to see the captain
strangest I could find
Layed my proposition down
Layed it on the line;
I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Ship of fools
on a cruel sea
Ship of fools
sail away from me

It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
now I cannot share your laughter
Ship of Fools

Sincerely
Jamie

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Nov 25, 2005 8:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I've already sent Phil an email and will essentially repeat it here. The biggest issue I see is that the music was already given away. Now, someone is taking it back. That lacks class in my opinion and the legacy of the Grateful Dead can only suffer for it. I first said that three days ago and judging by the posts I have read since then, that is certainly happening. Jerry Garcia's legacy is secure but the rest of the band members are looking very bad. I'll say it again: once you give something away, its not yours any more. I would guess THAT is why so many are so pissed.
A second point is that I believe the GDM downloads are too expensive. I've burned many shows and discovered at a later time that my discs were flawed. Homemade discs cannot compete technically with professionally burned ones. Twenty dollars for a set of files is excessive. If the Dead organization wants to increase revenue they should cut the prices. No more than $10 per show. Remember what you used to get in royalties from the record companies? A lot less than that, I would guess. Cutting the supply of SBD's on Archive.org is not going to boost your sales, only forfeit your unique place in music history.

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Poster: phl7@cornell.edu Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Deadheads UNITE!

Be sure to send your opinion/complaints to:

webmaster@deadcentral.com

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Poster: Little Nemo Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:19am
Forum: etree Subject: HEADS UP YOU HEADS!

Diana and other at Archive, I'm wondering why you don't tell us from whom you received your instructions at GDM/GDP? We'd like to know.

Okay all LMA-ers, the fact is that amongst us (there are thousands of us) WE ALREADY HAVE the complete archive! We simply need to select a common meeting ground (such as the new http://www.walstib.org/ ) where we can share until we all have everything we need and want! C'mon, let's stop bitchin and get sharing!

By the way, all, there's no need to boycott Phil's shows, he obviously isn't behind this or his shows would've disappeared too. I am sure that this event is due to the influence of some particular person, and the passivity of most of the band members. If we are not too harsh, I think the outpouring of response will have some kind of effect.

And fer cryin' out loud, if anyone thinks that even the band members could kill the Dead or its music, you have MISSED THE POINT. Wherever two or three gather in loving kindness to hear the music, THERE the spirit of the Dead lives on!

Now it's time for older and richer Heads to help the younger ones acquire the music. C'mon.

LN

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Diana and other at Archive, I'm wondering why you don't tell us from whom you received your instructions at GDM/GDP? We'd like to know.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=48498

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Poster: Little Nemo Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks Diana and great job under fire.

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Poster: elow Date: Nov 25, 2005 1:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I echo the words of thanks and appreciation to the folks, including GD, who made the archive available to date. What a pleasure it has been.

I respect GD's right to capitalize on its intellectual property in any manner that it chooses. In my opinion, GD has made an ill-advised business decision to pull the soundboards from the archive, but this is its choice. Similarly, it is my choice as a consumer to refrain from purchasing any further products, tickets, etc. from GD.

In the past, I have happily purchased tickets to over 200 GD concerts and many side project gigs, all the albums, a number of CD's and Dick's Picks releases and several videos. The archive has kept my interest in the band alive. By taking it away with no explanation about how the music will be made available in the future on reasonable terms, it seems like GD no longer cares about its customers and is acting in a high-handed manner. I also worry that, in the future, us rabid consumers of GD products will be squeezed a little too tightly. Cable companies made similar mistakes in the past by beginning to charge for channels that had traditionally been part of the package without adequate communication to customers. These sorts of tactics alienate and insult loyal customers. When GD decided to change the way that it makes the music available, it should have had the courtesy (and good sense) to explain its decision and to outline its strategy for going forward. Perhaps if it had done so, we all would not be so upset. I will enjoy the memories, but my financial contributions to GD are for now over.

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Poster: luvlight72 Date: Nov 25, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Sad Sad day,
I somehow think Jerry would strongly disapprove of how Grateful Dead merchandising have become a money greedy corporation. Thank you to Archive for providing this wonderful opportunity until this point. I knew it was too good to come true that the vast collection of Grateful dead shows would be available like this. Thank god I got the 100 shows when I did. Man this is a tragic day for fans of the band :(

Ooh and I too have given the band my last pennies as well. I will not support grateful dead merchandising anymore!!!!! I encourage you to follow suit!

This post was modified by luvlight72 on 2005-11-25 10:17:24

This post was modified by luvlight72 on 2005-11-25 10:30:07

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Poster: gdman Date: Nov 25, 2005 2:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I always appreciated the Dead's tolerance and graciousness over the past 10 years as the internet became the norm for the dispersal of their shows, so I am shocked by this sudden knee-jerk.
While I can understand pulling the SBD's, I can't fathom why they chose to take away the ability to download Auds.I also hope the band/organization realizes the incredible amount of work their fans put in just to prep and upload the huge number of shows that were available. To take it all away without an explanation is an insult to those folks, as well as a bad business decision. Do the Dead really think I'm going to pay $15.99 for a download? I hope not. Not only that, but as a fan of 2nd sets I don't necessarily want to pay for a whole show when I really only want half of it.
Hopefully we Deadheads will see the band offer some kind of viable alternative, but unless it's something comparable to the archive (albeit with a nominal charge), we will all be back to posting our trade lists and waiting for the mail to come.

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Poster: jason funkalope Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

maybe i'm a newbie but why only 2nd sets? first i've heard of a preference like that...in 15 years or so since i "found out" about the dead.

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Poster: gdman Date: Nov 28, 2005 1:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

2nd sets typically are more about jamming and exploration.

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Poster: BoldCaptain Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I searched both spititual and corporal for an answer and this is the best i could come up with...

Attachment: Nothing-LastsWebsm.jpg

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Poster: Hatta Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked
to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed
on the Archive site for the time being.

-----

I assume this took place on a mailing list of some sort? Can we see the archives for this list so we can reply appropriately to GD management? Or is this a secret decision handed down from above with no concern for the fanbase that made this band great?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707

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Poster: map_bubba Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: no more Grateful Dead sound board recordings on the Internet Archive

Incredible thanks to those who made over 1170 items gathered into a golden nexus of pure sound, vast quantity, and palpable community reviews that really brought my interest back! The feeling I had was that at archive.org, these items were the foundation of a more centralized global community than I'd ever thought would take shape.

Hadn't grabbed any of my favorites since August, but today I felt a disturbance in the force and returned to archive.org only to find no more There there--like seeds and stems from the Really Big Bag that I remember.

'Tis as though a commercial tsunami blew through and swept away my personal portal to trippy hours from decades past. Not like it's all really gone away--just that I'm locked out now. Such is life in a land of properties and attorneys. As Americans perhaps it is our duty to realize that wistful nostalgia is precious. However personal it feels to us, at the end of the day the play-when-you-want-it part of those feelings are bult on some artist's property; Visa and Mastercard will henceforth be accepted for our convenience, with a nominal convenience fee added.

-=Blue about it in Kentfield

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Poster: RipplinstillH20 Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

You can still get phil & friends and the "Q" shows as SDB's

Corporate greed suxs..bottom line

WE as family need to start our own site...let's called it
"jerry's vision of free music.org"

or somekind of cosmic shit like that...we can do this cuse WE are everywhere...dr's laywers, nurses, politician,indian chiefs...WE have the power of family to make this happen for our kids and theirs....so when I'm drooling in a cup somewhere ..I can tell my kids & grkids where to go to get some great live music...."hey kiddies, did you download that 5-8-77 show i told ya about"

LET'S STOP TALKING AND GRIPPING ABOUT IT AND MAKE IT HAPPEN FAMILY!!!!!
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT CUSE IF YOU KEEP IT REAL YOU KNOW IF YOU WERE IN THERE POSITION YOU'D WANT THE $$$$ TOO, IT'S THE AMERICAN WAY....ISN'T THE GRATEFUL DEAD THE ULTIMATE AMERICAN BAND?
WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR MUSIC IS DISTRIBUTED!!

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Poster: easybreeze Date: Nov 27, 2005 4:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I would like to start by thanking the Archive for all their wonderful work in bringing these recordings to us....the dedicated and loyal fans of the Grateful Dead. I have received much personal enjoyment from these shows and will continue to enjoy them for years to come.
That being said, I would like to express my deep feelings of betrayal and confusion over the recent decision to pull SBDs from the archive. This goes against everything the Grateful Dead have always stood for. It is a slap in the face to any serious fan who has contributed to the Grateful Dead community over the years. Someone in the "organization" totally missed the boat on this one. It is us, the hard-core fans that they have alienated.
I have seen numerous shows, spent thousands of dollars on music(studio and live), merchandise, books......the list goes on and on. I used to stay up late on Sunday night to hear the Grateful Dead hour with Gans to get my weekly fix. The archive has allowed me, the hard working family man a little enjoyment in a very hectic life. No matter what happened that week, you always knew you had that new gem to listen to when the kids went to bed on Saturday night. I have turned numerous people on to Grateful Dead over the past year. These are the people that will be going back and buying studio albums and Dicks Picks.
The thought that Bob or Phil would go along with this deeply affects me. It goes against everything they have stood for since day 1. I want to hear from someone at GDM, not some PR statement, I want Bob or Phil to come out and say where they stand on this issue. It would shock me to the core if they all of a sudden changed there minds after all these years. The thought of this being a complete sell-out makes me sick to my stomach and leaves me feeling dismayed and betrayed. Why couldn't they start a download service where we have access to the shows and pay a reasonable monthly fee ($20/mth). I hope for this but I fear the worst.
For those who say the Grateful Dead don't owe us anything, I would say, it is us who have paid there salaries and believed in the whole scene for many many years. You just can't stop believing in something that you have believed in your entire adult life.
I hope for a peaceful resolution that puts the concerns of Deadheads front and center.

[moderated]

Let there be songs....to fill the air
Peace

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-27 10:56:37

This post was modified by easybreeze on 2005-11-27 12:32:44

This post was modified by easybreeze on 2005-11-27 12:38:40

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 27, 2005 12:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm tiring of this "cosmic" talk, this solopsistic egocentrism. Some people out there have to stop fooling themselves about what this band is/was.

Jerry was not a guru of free music folks. There's a certain narcicisim that exists among certain circles of Deadheads that Jerry was singing for them. That he wanted you to have free music created by love and cosmic harmony and all of that. Thatwhole ideal is cool, but even Jerry acknowledged that it wasn't that simple. Nothing is that simple. The Grateful Dead were/are artists and entertainers AND businesspeople.

That he cared about creating beautiful music, sure, but that he was committed to giving music away, hell no! Check out his comments about the music as a busniess in Garcia, A Signpost to a New Space, published by Da Capo press. I know you'll have to actually go purchase it and patronize the corporate pigs that produce this stuff, but, its worth it. Or go to your library. Anyway, he talks about how they were f-up's in the music busniess not because they wanted to buck the capitalist coroprate machine, per se, rather, because they didn't care! They didn't care.

When they knew they were going to take a huge dump, maybe lose more than their shirts, business interests made them care. They fired Mickey Hart's ganif old man. He was screwing the band, so they fired him. Ramrod, ironically enough, was the catalyst. He said, "Him or me guys." So they knew they had to make hard choices, big decisions that might've pissed some people off, in this case a person in the center of the band. They did it to preserve the business.

I think this music was available for so long because; one, they knew it was the best way to market themselves, two, they couldn't organize it all and tour and live their own lives and three, they probably didn't need the dough. Now they do. Christ, folks, stop deifying Garcia. He wasn't going out there to play music for you to have in perpetuity for the price of a ticket.

Also, remember, Jerry isn't the Grateful Dead. Jerry was one fifth, seventh, of a band. Other people count too. Regardless of how anathema their ideas are to the "free music" sensibility, its their music. And, well, its our music too if we have it. Just like I have a picture of Jerry from a show in 1993 on my hard drive. Its mine, right. And well, if its mine and I want to share it with friends, without comercial gain, I can. So...What I'm saying is, let's share, folks. We all have the music. Just find another venue to share it. Stop bashing the Dead or corporate powers, or archive.org, or that patient sweetheart of a moderator, Diane Hamilton, or whoever for "betraying" Jerry's perceived "free music" ethic, and share the music.

Let's share the music.

disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 27, 2005 1:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I agree I think alot of people have this idea that somehow the Dead were playing music out of the sheer joy of making music, spreading joy and all that oher hippy dippy sh##, and for the most part they were, but you have to be truly naive to believe that there wasn't a business end to it. I mean why even charge for concerts at all if that was the case, why sign to record labels, sell cd's etc.

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Poster: Wildcrafter Date: Dec 1, 2005 11:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Forgive all of us, who attribute to Garcia the intention of creativity that minimized the marketing aspect. The Grateful Dead were such a success because they failed repeatedly to achieve popularity in the mass market. I once cynically told John Barlow, that despite all his good intentions the web was just a new form of electric meter. At fifty I am not nearly as cynical and hope, what is referred to as "The Grateful Dead Model" will spread in all the arts and communications. While I'm not such a hippie to believe that everything should be free, I do believe that the corporate model and copyright need to be revised. The most disgusting manifestation of this is the way the deceased are marketed. Debra Koons Garcia could sell Jerry to anyone she wants. Consider Mickey Mouse and Elvis. We need to limit copyright and expand public domain. People react negatively because we are as individuals threatened by the neo-feudalism that modern capitalism has regressed to. I am horrified to think what classic music and literature would be if our current marketing system had existed since Guttenberg. Our heritage is analogous with what the tapers in the pit did at shows. They were and always will be heros to me. The heirs to the Grateful Dead should consider how the Internet Archive preserves the legacy and how their short sighted marketing goals diminish it.


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Poster: tcoursen Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Well, I am disapointed, just like everybody else.

I am a NEW GD fan. I first downloaded a show from another site a little over a year ago. Was curious, so I figured out a free download was the best way to go. Well I liked it. I soon picked up the Winterland DVD, which I think at the time had just come out. I really like that DVD and for the longest time that filled my interest.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I am in a CD store and I see the 3 CD version of the Fillmore West 1969. I don't buy it, but go home and check it out on the net. I end up going back the next day and buying it after reading about it. Since then I have downloaded a few shows from here. I have also purchased Live/Dead, Skull and Roses, American Beauty and Workingman's Dead. All in the last two weeks. Skull and Roses was actually purchased today. Was gonna get Europe 72, but the store didn't have it. I definately have my eye on a few more releases.

Anyway, I saw the archive as a great way for me, as a NEW fan, to learn about the dead. Unfortunately most of the shows I did download were from 69. I absolute LOVE the 3 cd fillmore set and had got some other shows from that period. I was gettting ready to move on to future years. I had planned to go year by year. I had a whole long list of shows that I wanted to download. Probably, most likely, getting the official releases as I came to them.

I don't think I can boycott since I am now hooked and I really don't have all that much. How can I not go out and get things like Europe 72? Rockin on the Rhein? The Soundtrack to the Grateful Dead movie? Downloading shows from the same time period would not have stopped me from getting the official ones with the remastered/better sound. I did download 3 or the 4 Fillmore 69 shows. Would have downloaded the 2/28 show but I couldn't find it. I actually downloaded those shows after I bought the 3 CD set. If the 10 cd set was still available at this point I would have sold off the 3 cd set and had somebody get me the 10 cd set for X-mas.

So, my point is, this definately hurts NEW fans.

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Man, I feel your pain through my friends that are/were on the verge of becoming dead-heads. Anyway, pick up the "Without A Net" album.

you're welcome in advance :D

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Poster: fix4you Date: Nov 29, 2005 9:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Well, I guess that after 25 years of faithful support I'll be looking for a new way to get my dead music.

What we all need to do is start posting this music on any and all torrent sites so that everyone can continue to enjoy what started as free.

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Poster: GFLD1 Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First off I would like to thank Archive.org. I have enjoyed many a show downloaded from this site. I'm very sorry to see it go and I worry that this is the first of many sites this will happen to.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it was either one of Jerry's last wishes or in his will that he could make the entire vault available to everyone.

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Poster: GFLD1 Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First off I want to thank Archive.org for making so many great shows available for so long. They have given me hours of enjoyment.
Its hard for me to believe that members of the band agreed to this. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Jerry say something in his will about making the Vault available to everyone.

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Poster: spinneresque Date: Nov 30, 2005 12:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hi everyone, I just started this petition and am starting this blog so people can talk and debate about the issue here ad infinitum.

Here is the website:
http://keepingitrealgd.blogspot.com/

Here is the petition:

Grateful Dead music inspires in its fans an extraordinary passion, hence this news of pulling the archive is breaking the heart of thousands of people today. We see the Grateful Dead historically as a representation of something pure and good. In order to love something so much, you have to trust it. Despite the stereotypes and social mockery, we have proudly remained fans of the Grateful Dead for all these years, defending it and ourselves because we knew in our heart that this music we are following is good, and pure. Some say we have no right to protest this mid-game ‘changing of the rules.’ But what those people are not accounting for is the MILLIONS of hours that Deadheads have collectively spent in combining, uploading, remastering, patching flawed recordings.....voluntarily, and out of love, and trusting that it would be shared freely. In our opinion, at this point to stop the free sharing of these recordings is so sad, and so wrong. Jerry is gone, and he has no say, and we all know what he would have said. This is unfair to us. So much work has gone into building the archive. Please let it stand.

You can sign it here:
http://new.petitiononline.com/02108108/petition.html

:-)

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Poster: Oh My Dearest Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I don't really understand the Dead's rationale here. Obviously, it's to protect their financial interests. Soundboards are considered to be their property and thus they can sell them to their fans under the guise of official releases "dicks picks" and such. Yet, this rationale doesn't mesh with the reality of tape trading as experienced by myself or Im sure many other deadheads. When I first got into the dead and started collecting as a teenager the shows I traded for were a mixture of soundboard and audience sources, of which the soundboards were the obviously more desirable. The key point is that I never really thought of that soundboard source recorded onto that Maxell tape as the property of the Grateful Dead. Maybe that was a mistake, maybe I should have. Rather, I always thought that the fact that I could obtain these concerts, with a level of sound quality so good, was one of the greatest aspects about the Grateful Dead. It really highlighted the pure joy of the music itself. You see the decision to remove the soundboards on the basis that they are the property of the Grateful Dead contradicts the experience of the common taper. These soundboards were never considered to be the property of the Grateful Dead, rather they were thought to be, for me and my friends, the meat and pototoes of what being a Deadhead was all about. I don't mean to naively suggest that that the Grateful Dead as a band, company and family should not be able to profit from their labours, work and art. They absolutely should. But to suddenly pull all the soundboards off Internet Archive on the pretense that soundboards qualify as "private property" doesn't make sense. Those who rendered this decision should realize that this was never the perception held amongst myself or the collectors I knew. What does the Grateful Dead as it exists today have to gain by preventing someone from downloading a show like Barton Hall or any other show so widely circulated and revered. It wouldn't make sense to release it as an official release and thereby profit from it. So it just comes off as mean spirited. The Dead or whoever made this happen should realize that for those of us who love their music this kind of hurts. You cannot suddenly enforce the notion that soundboards are private property without any prior precdence. Why not just take off those shows that you're considering for official release. I know this would be challenging but it would still be a better compromise than this. The legacy of the Grateful Dead is not served well by this decision. I hope that some other arrangement is made.

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Poster: JerryInaPouch Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Just a few positive notes

I know this has nothing to do with previous posts, but here's another idea: send customerservice@gdstore.com (from D.L.) with your favorite and inspirational quotes. Here are a few I sent:

"Man, oh man, oh friend of mine, all good things in all good time"
"Last fair deal in the country"
"Some come to laugh the past away, some come to make it just one more day"
"one man gathers what another man spills"
"Some come here to fiddle and dance..."
"Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart"...

and my personal favorite, which really reflects this whole ordeal,

"Tell me ALL that you know....and I'll show you...snow and rain/////"

Later all

Douglas LoConti,
World famous Cleveland Agora

[sales pitch moderated](no sales pitch here, just trying to spread the MUSIC...you remember...the MUSIC...what this whole thing is all about?) Thanks all.

-Doug

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 17:25:48

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Poster: DaveJuggBass Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Follow the money trail

Follow the money trail in the upcoming weeks, months, and years then we'll have our answers.
In the meantime go out and support your local area bands, people that do it for little or no money (or a few beers) you'll discover some amazing stuff is out there.
Keep your eyes and ears open I'm sure something will develop where you can still trade with other Deadheads for some great shows.
GDM seems to have forgotten the unique and beneficial relationship the band had with their fans throughout the years, one could not have existed without the other.
I don't believe for one moment these guys are strapped for cash. If they are they got no one to blame but themselves for poor money management.

Keep on rockin' in the FREE world.

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 23, 2005 6:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Does anyone know what happened to gdlive.com? It seems to be gone now. That site had other stuff than dead shows, but I havent been able to get to it for several days.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 23, 2005 7:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

me thinks that puppy is gone now too, my friend. sad state of affairs it is :(

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Poster: gratefuled Date: Dec 23, 2005 7:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This stealth business is really ugly. I would at least appreciate some sort of announcement rather than have to watch websites just mysteriously disappear. That was the only other website I know of (except Tune Tree, which no longer posts Grateful Dead material--Just Phil, the Dead and one Ratdog show plus some other artists like Warren Haynes). Do you know of any GD download sites? If so, could you post links or addresses so I (and interested others) could check them out to see if they exist and in the future?

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Poster: soundtribe Date: Dec 23, 2005 8:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

google 'shn grateful dead' or 'bittorrent grateful dead' and please do not mention any sites on lma anymore. anything mentioned will be gone shortly. :/

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 23, 2005 8:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

for dead,jerry,marley,zappa and others try deadboots.com and nugs.net

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Poster: Stealz Date: Dec 5, 2007 9:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

uhhhhh......... bump?

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Poster: LolHaHa123451 Date: Jul 29, 2008 3:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

You suckers all like a band that turned out to be as greedy as the rest. Pat yourselves and what you thought were your values on the back.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jul 29, 2008 3:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Nah. There are some great Phil and Friends soundboards here, which have the blessings of Mr Lesh.

Anybody who really wants to start a collection can easily do it, and this place is THE BEST place for folks to discover how.

LMA/GD Forum - Providing technical and spiritual guidedance to both the new and the experienced GD
enthusiast.

It's amazing how much I've learned about music, computers, history........

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 23, 2005 8:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

for a few shows of the dead,jerry,marley,zappa,and others.try deadboots.com or nugs.net

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Poster: snarkus Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'd also like to thank the kind folks who run the Archive for all of their efforts, and for making the most of a bad situation here.

As for whatever remains of the dead, you have really disappointed me. I've been a fan for over 3 decades now, own all the albums, more Dick's Picks than I have space to store. I thought the existence of this material on the Archive was a beautiful thing, a veritable national treasure. I don't often download shows from the LMA, counting instead on them being there. I'll often get an urge to hear some particular version of some particular song, and know where I can go find it. Or point someone else at a song that has meaning to me. But no more.

This is a real breach of faith. Greedy moneygrubbing BS. I thought the scene was about more than that. I guess I was wrong. I hope you're happy. I hope you make a few more dollars than you might otherwise have. Have a great life. But don't expect anything more from me. I will attend no more shows, buy no more CD's. I was a fan of the Grateful Dead. But they apparently don't exist anymore. Greed has killed them off for good.

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Poster: harold920 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

In the October 6, 2005 edition of the Rolling Stone, there is an article praising your work. One of the contributors is none other than John Perry Barlow. In this article he says "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible if it's on Archive.org than if it isn't." You can find this quote on page 92. So, if one of the main players of the Grateful Dead family has that to say, what is the real reason that you did this little "experiment"?

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Poster: ascheylus Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm so glad that only happy postings about this policy are being put on Archive.org! For a glimpse of how the Grateful Dead community REALLY feels about this new Archive.org arrangement, please go to--

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/

Join the revolution. Tapers were dumb to donate their hard work to Archive.org. We shall overcome. We will create alternate Archive.org's with everything available.

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Poster: ptowndave Date: Nov 27, 2005 3:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hi All, The Music Never Stops ???????????
Well, first I've read every theard posted so far. Yes, were all bummed,sad, and most important not pissed at the Archive(truely one of the best sites on the net)
I wanted to add some other stuff not mentioned.
1. Have we all forgot why Phil and the rest of the band(mainly Bobby) didn't get along for over a year ??? Yes, it was about downloads and being aproached by Microsoft to archive the entire catalog that later was put up on archive. Phil held strong to the point of being off on his own island. As, a side note i live in Portland Oregon and a few years ago Bobby was doing a signing. At the time Phil and him were at odds. I waited in line with a poster of Telluride and a killer picture of him with Phil. As he went to sign (not even looking up) i stopped the entire line behind me. I confronted Bobby about ending the problem with Phil and about how he was "shitting over all of our memories". I also told him I couldn't support him or go to any show of his til it was resolved. That night at the Roseland ended up being the live Ratdog release. i feel that talk helped Bobby wake up (well, only for a moment)
2. At the most recent Phil book signing in Portland(which i did video on a Canon xl1)Not only did Phil mention the archive and how wonderful it was but, I upon meeting him; I THANKED him for helping us get the music for free and letting it all be archived(yes soundboards too)He gave a huge grin.
3. So, in case you all forgot....
4. Yes, itunes has showed many a way to make money but....
5. The real debate is giving your music away to support people seeing your live shows. With clear channel being the only avenue for radio play how do people hear your music. I'm a big fan of Bright Eyes. Connor's latest
debuted at #7 billboard. No radio play. He's put out music himself since he was 15. His fan base bought something like 200.000 units first week. No radio or adds.
6. Like others have posted no tour=no money. We don't want to see Joan Osbourne:) or Jimmy Herring(sorry) We want the guitar player from Dark Star,David Nelson maybe Melvin on keys or Rob without Jeff .
What really kills the Dead is to see Dark Star out shine them. The REAL FAMILY is at Dark Star. I've only seen Dark Star once(the Grateful Dead300 shows)but the VIBE IS THERE. Why I'm saying this is why "they need the money" from downloads. They've lost there fanbase and are now trying to grovel for every last cent.
7. Tickets for Phil are 0ver $45. I know everyone old thinks its o.k. and justify it by going to a small venue but consider this. The last Gov't Mule/moe. tour was $30 and was over 4 hours long. To see Phil with Joan,Ryan Adams, or someone else no one wants to see sucks. For Phil to say his New Year show this year would make Bill Graham proud again inforces the Bull. Yes, its all about MONEY.
8. General lack of concern !!!! Why was Billy the only member For the Jerry Garcia Amp deadication in S.F. (because Mountain Girl was there)
The band also did not show up for the Filed Trip/Acid Test in Eugene for Ken Kesey either.David Nelson did and played a night to remember.
9. Finally, i guess I'm not surprised. I would also like to thank all who have shared our memories with hours of work to post. You all get it !!!!
10.I think there might be a chance to get it all back. Why would they not delete the shows if they were so sure about selling them. I think its an experiment to see if they can make some money ?? When they realize what little of there fanbase is left and that we did support the official releases and that were not coming back. Then maybe.
Taping/trading live shows encourages people to go to the show.
NOT EVERYBODY WHO GETS SOMETHING FOR FREE DOESN"T GIVE BACK.
We will suport you if you are HONEST and give us enough RESPECT.
We all feel a change of this policy deserves an answer. How can you spit on so many people that love you !!!!!!!!
I FOR ONE WILL NO LONGER SUPPORT ANY BAND MEMBER OR RELEASE
Peace

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 27, 2005 5:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Regarding Phil, I notice that the boards for his band are still up. I wasn't aware of the acrimony between Phil and the rest of the band, but that's interesting. I wouldn't put some sort of corporate deal past them, I saw on the official website that Ratdog was doing some sort of Carnival cruise ship deal. Lame. The recent "Wave that Flag" tour by "The Dead" reeked of nostalgia and I think that is what is happening here. Tour revenue is down and GDP has had to lay people off. The vault represents a large source of untapped income and what we're probably seeing is a shift from touring as the main source of income to commercial releases and (ugh) some sort of corporate IPOD/Microsoft deal. It sucks I know but if you really love the music (which I do) I would advise that we enjoy the music and try to ignore the retarded/crapola concessions it seems most artists make to the marketplace. I love Iggy Pop but I hear "Lust for Life" used in all sorts of stupid-ass commercials.

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Poster: Swampo Date: Nov 23, 2005 6:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I remember John Lennon saying "What's everyone upset about? It's just a Rock band. You still have the records to listen to" At the time, that didn't make any sense. The Beatles were so much more than just a band to so many people. After some years have gone by, it is now more understandable. The Dead were more than just a band too, but in time, since the band seems to be finished making music together, this will also make more sense. Remember the old saying, 10,000 years from now, no one will give a shit. If the band has gotten to the point the money has become more important than the music and unique feeling that they generated, than I'm over it too. Thanks for the ride. It will always have a big place in my soul. At least I have the music I wanted as long as the CD format lasts. Love to all.

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Poster: BigJilm Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The funny thing about this thread (if you read it all) is how many people are crying, bitching, moaning...etc...how they have been let down, screwed over (insert big WAAAAAAA here). Like ANY band that allows taping/trading, it is a Privilege, not a right.
The only reason any band has to give for changing a taping policy is "because we want to". Is it a bad decision? maybe. Will it lower concert attendance? Probably, only because people with 'something to prove' will boycott the band. That'll show em', "I'm going to stop seeing a band I really enjoy because I can't get something for free." I'm sure they will be missed.
Of course we can't forget the clairvoyants out there. the ones who only started following the Dead because they knew in the future you will be able to obtain almost any show from the Internet, for free. Now after the years of support (because they only wanted the free DL's,not because they...gasp....really liked the band/music) they have been burned.
I am really sad to see the shows go. I, like many, wish I had DL'd more than I did. But, you just have to admit it's over when it is. It's over. Maybe for now. Maybe forever. Either way, there are other ways to get quality shows. Time spent ranting on the archive is time lost finding them elsewhere.

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

don't you get it ??

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Poster: BigJilm Date: Nov 23, 2005 7:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I 'get' that I spent multiple thousands of dollars over the many years supporting the Dead. I did this with the sole purpose of enjoying THE MOMENT. A Concert, a new record or CD. A shirt I wanted...whatever. The band is quite obviously and clearly not what it used to be in terms of how big of venues they play, crowd draw...etc...
Unfortunatly when the machine was steamrollin' there were many people involved. Now that they are slowly losing out to fans getting into new bands, getting "too old", new fans not coming in the number they used to....whatever. They have to decide how to keep the people they have employed....well, employed. I'm sure everyone would be happy if they just said "sorry Johnny Worker, we have to continue to keep our music free. You have to find a new job" At an age and time when it probably isn't too good of an outlook for someone to do so. You know, keeping in the spirit of the 'scene' and all.
Don't YOU get it?

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

ohh ya, I get the fact that for many years ,i lost the music and becuse of the downloads.. got back into the music and started buying $$$ GD releases.. no worry and now I have a knife at my throat..saying you have to buy..on I-tunes and download MP3s that sound awful on my sound system..the archive is a way to keep the marketing alive..I think I get it. do you think without this site the 1969 box set would have been such a success? we all want the remasterd music so peeps like me who have nice sound sysems can get the full effect..I think your tone is what upsets me most so instead of WAAAAA I give a BOOOOOO

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Poster: BigJilm Date: Nov 23, 2005 8:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Interesting how you could know my 'tone' from reading a typed response. You must have some kind of advanced degree in literature or something. ****settle down, it's called sarcasm*****
There is no 'knife to you throat'. Don't buy anything. Like I said, there are probably, literally hundreds of places & people to get these shows from. BT is going to be the new way most likely. All it means is...gasp...we are ALL going to have to work a little (more than before anyway) to get our GD now.
What it comes down to is:
No more Dead on the Archive sucks.
There are very few people who can change this.
All the ranting is almost making the fans look worse than those responsible for the removal of the music.

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Poster: er1c Date: Nov 26, 2005 12:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

wonder how barlow, lyricist, who now works with the EFF feels about this? this junk carries the mark of the wealthy cocoa cola heiress, deborah koontz (old girlfriend of jerry's who he got back with - and his bad habits - shortly prior to hes passing) there, I said it, let her step up and tell us it ain't her. bet she won't. not hard to guess which band member too. businessman he is. bad karma will befall them, their attempt to control sharing of music in the free spirited way that built the band's following will come to no good. I say rip all yoour dick's picks and vault cds and post 'em wherever you can. give it away, it's what jerry wanted!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 29, 2005 4:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

wonder how barlow, lyricist, who now works with the EFF feels about this?

This just in:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/29/barlow_on_death_of_g.html

"This is worse than the RIAA suing their customers." Now that's on-message for EFF! ;)

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-29 12:49:00

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 29, 2005 8:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

In the 9/26/05 Rolling Stone....
Hart addressed the crowd and as he did ten years earlier at Garcia's memorial, by posing a combination challenge and request. "Take this feeling we all share home," he said, "and do something with it!"

Then based on Diana's posting...
John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing:
You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it.

So what should we do with this feeling Mick? Share it? Or charge for it?

Again...I'm into sharing. Who's in? Email me to share. We've got about five in the mix already. I figure another ten and well have ourselves a party of SBDS. Its exponential folks.

disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

I was hoping Barlow would sound in on this sooner or later. One had to expect this would be his position after the interview in Relix a while ago where he bragged about the Dead inventing "viral advertizing," or somesuch, in reference to the free taping policy.

I wonder if "drummers" here is to be read metaphorically or literally.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

a multitude of cheers for Mr. Barlow!!!! :)

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Poster: psyched Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

Cheers indeed!

It's notable that he singled out the Drummers as the cause. Makes the Phil-bashing seem a little premature. Even so, we should probably wait until there's an official statement to know where to direct our outrage.

Also interesting to compare Barlow's remarks to Gans's. Barlow who actually had a CREATIVE hand in the GD, and Gans who by his own admission makes his living FROM the FREE TRADE OF RECORDINGS; If not for the old trading policy, which most of us are now lamenting the loss of--including Barlow--Gans would never have had his job in the first place.

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Poster: jbenash7 Date: Nov 29, 2005 6:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

It seems to me that the reason Gans is not opposed to the removal of the soundboards is that their free and easy distribution to all was actually to his disadvantage. With everyone and their mother having free access to nearly every recording, the Dead Hour became less valued as a venue for fans to hear recordings that might formerly have been very rare.

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 29, 2005 6:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

why don't they ban cover bands while there at it ??

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 29, 2005 7:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

Hey, but look on the bright side. At least we can now have "Saint of Circumstance" as a ring tone.

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Poster: psyched Date: Nov 29, 2005 6:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

Good point, jbenash7.

This post was modified by psyched on 2005-11-29 14:52:25

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Poster: dwill1188 Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

wow im impressed with Mr. Barlow's comments....hopefully soon GDM will realize what a mistake they've made and turn everything around in the other direction. but then again, i dont know what the future looks like....but i think the protest is a good idea

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Poster: ajmasko Date: Nov 29, 2005 6:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

if what he says is true, this whole situation is the latest in very long string of bad business decisions by the dead over the years. sad.

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Poster: DaveB521 Date: Nov 29, 2005 6:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks

The Dead still makes most of thier cash by touring. I doubt they have ever seen a low turnout and if this starts to happen it may make them wake up. I myself will boycott any shows until they at least put the audience taped shows back on. Anyhow, String Cheese is the new deal in my book.

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Poster: vladsmythe Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

How about a refund for the dumb Landover'90 cd that was to fund the Terrapin Station debacle? That was a real burn.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The Internet Archive has no connection to Terrapin Station or any GD CD sales.

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Poster: gphishmon Date: Nov 29, 2005 1:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I gotta say, I felt kicked in the stomach by this. I must admit I've gotten spoiled by being able to download great high quality shows for free. I've downloaded probably about a dozen GD shows and was looking forward to a lot more. I felt like a kid who had his favorite toy taken away.

Having said that, to some of the people calling for a boycott of everything Dead-related, I want to say: If you boycott Phil and Friends, you are only cheating yourself. I learned the news just today at work, knowing I had a show to go to (in Pittsburgh) tonight. I went anyway and had an awesome time. Besides which, I'll bet Phil is not behind all this.

A big shout out to everyone at LMA for making these and many other shows accessible. It is a truly sad day - feels almost like when Jerry died. But the music has not died. I know I'll look for other places to get the shows (GDlive.com, for example) and would be open to trading at this point. I have a small amount downloaded from the archive including 1/22/78 (just got it last week!), 9/28/72, 10/29-30/73, 7/12/90, and others.

Peace

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

...Anyway thanks archive for your support and kindness,still a lot of great music in here.Now it's time to go back to old way of trading grateful dead blanks and postage anyone?nothing left to do but smile smile smile...

[Very unproductive comments snipped. Ugly rumors and death threats(?!) will definitely be moderated.- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-22 17:17:24

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Poster: DeadSetMonkey Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I agree... it is back to the good old days of trading for blanks and postage... except now maybe we'll be shipping around hardrives? I had started slowly downloading the archive to external HD, slowly, in anticipation of this happening... I only got 1967-4/1970... wish I had gone faster.... Anyone else out there get a significant junk of the archive downloaded? You send me your 200GB HD, I'll send you mine...

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Poster: jlizard96 Date: Nov 25, 2005 7:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I have 1994 and 1995 in its entirety from live music. org. I'd be interested in "swapping hard drives" for 0ther years.

my email: jlizard96@verizon.net

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Poster: costab06 Date: Nov 29, 2005 8:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I was happy to occasionally download a concert I liked, and to buy Dick's Picks for stuff that was really special. I figured this was a balance. Community and commerce. It felt good.

That feeling is now gone. I only saved a few concerts. I'll send the hard disks if anyone is willing to fill 'em up. I don't have much to offer, but I'll pay for the effort. So much for avoiding the commercial resale of this material. The fastest way to create a black market is to make something scarce...





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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 29, 2005 8:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Costab...Email me and we'll trade. disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com
Have some top notch shows. Trade lists?

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Poster: Bugz Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dead Set Monkey and others - I'm certain that a lot of us have safe copies of the music - maybe a file sharing group @ yahoo or similar to facilitate spreading the music?

To the Archive: Thanks, and all your efforts are / were appreciated - this means all who were involved - a round of applause to you, and a standing ovation.

I have more shows than I can listen to in a month of Blue Moons and listen I do; I have learned about many other bands and will attend their shows when they roll into town solely because I heard them here.

I have never, except an LP back in the early 1970's, purchased a bootleg GD recording and never will. I have kept my part of the bargain and will continue to do so.

I will still purchase GD recordings, but I will not, if the rumors turn out to be true that a wife of a deceased member is responsible for this sea change, purchase any recordings from that source. I hope this is not the case and I apologize to any GD family member if this rumor is just lashing out by some parties that feel hurt by this action.

If this is a Band decision so be it; All I can request is that the music be made available by download "officially" at a reasonable cost.

I am surprised at the timing, the day before Thanksgiving, but it could have been a year ago so...

Has anyone looked at the GD site to see if there is a message? I will go there now to check and post if appropriate.

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:19pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

If such a website comes into existence, I'd sure appreciate a membership card!

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Poster: Jon P.-Madison, WI Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dear Grateful Dead Recording demons,
Today I attempted to begin recording to disk my first Dead shows. This was to be my first experience using my CD burner. I was shocked to learn that I will not be able to record shows recorded from soundboards.
I had a traumatic brain injury on May 5, 1999. My family purchased a computer for me while I was in rehabilitation. I have slowly been learning to use the features of my new computer. My tapes are old, from my years of seeing shows in the late 80's into the 90's. I have kept them safe and sound, but had to go through a lot of work to get them back after my belongings were put in storage. I treasure them. Now, these recordings, copied dozens of times, will be my only way to enjoy Dead shows. They suck in quality.
A friend recently shared your site with me. I finally have the time and ability to record some of your extensive collection, I learn that I cannot access these fine recordings. I am sad. Very sad.
I recently saw Bob Weir and Ratdog in Milwaukee. The show was one of the best I've seen. I have tickets to see Phil on Sunday again in Milwaukee. His actions give me reason to sell my tickets to scalpers. They will sell them to the fake Deadheads who have capitalized on sites like yours.
I am on Social Security Disability. My current income does not allow me to buy the few shows commercially available on disc. Your (now unavailable) soundboard quality recordings of the Grateful Dead were to be with me for life. I would have listened to them for my own enjoyment.
Why should I even try to visit your site anymore? This news has made me angry about the Dead for the first time. What would Jerry think?
This is yet another sentence against me. I already have missed 5 1/2 years of my life. Now, the chance to have these treasured quality recordings has been taken away from me. And, it was taken away by one of the Dead members I most liked. This day sucks!
Jon P.

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Poster: East Coast Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Too bad dude

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Poster: blueendo Date: Dec 7, 2005 2:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

To JON P of Madison, WI (who posted on 11/22):

Are you for real? The reason I ask is not to be a dick but to offer to share some of mine with you.

If it is true that you sustained such an unfortunate injury and were right on the verge of making some CDs for your personal listening pleasure when the supply was cut off, I'd be happy to send you a few of the more popular shows. How about the early May 1977 trio of Boston (5-7-77), Ithaca, NY (5-8-77), and Buffalo (5-9-77)? I'd be happy to make a Christmas present of them to you if you will send me your name and address to my email - lavelle3*at*cox.net

If your story is a fiction, please don't bother contacting me. I fear for your karma. It isn't worth it to mess with the cosmic gears.

MY STORY:
In my unfocused way, I stumbled onto the Internet Archive a couple of months ago, after downloading most of my Dead shows from gdlive.com.

My Spidey-sense started tingling immediately and soon I was FTPing the bejeezuz out of audio.org. I checked with DeadBase to see which shows were the highest rated by the tie-dyed cognoscenti, and I set about downloading as many of the top 30 or 40 shows as I could.

I'm not surprised the folks in the Dead camp shut off the pipe. I'm sorry so many people feel they were entitled to total and free access to other peoples' work.

That is a large part of what is wrong with our country today. We saw it in New Orleans after Katrina, when people who ignored warnings to get to safety stood around in the stink and complained about not getting handouts fast enough.

We're seeing another version of it here, now. Men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once shared the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows have reduced themselves to scuffing toes in the dust and beating on their pots, acting for all the world like welfare queens, or, worse, looters.

The music was never meant to be free if it was to be enjoyed in the manner in which it was created. You had to prepare yourself to receive that blessed sound.

Here's a dumb, but I think appropriate analogy: Take a bagful of Arizona sweets, the most delicious oranges to ever meet a juicer and squeeze them up into a bright pitcher. Then go brush your teeth. When you're done, take a big hit off a glass of OJ. It tastes awful, NOTHING like it should, because you aren't receiving it in the way it was intended.

If you really believe that somebody owes you free Dead music for life, it's my feeling that you probably don't come close to enjoying the sentiment and sense of the music as much as you do hoarding your stack of shiny CDs.

THEY made the music. It was extraordinarily kind (and typical) of those incorrigible rascals to make it available to us for so long, asking nothing in return.

The magic, while it isn't dead, just isn't being created anew in the ways it was once. There are new priorities and it's time to move past this.

My first Dead show - in 1968 at the Fillmore in SF - was like nothing I'd ever experienced. (And I'd seen the Beatles at Shea Stadium and Bob Dylan's first electric show.)

The Dead were like casual sex - the worst I ever had was still great!!

I'd like to remember them in that way.

blueendo - Phoenix

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Poster: dillowrangler Date: Dec 7, 2005 3:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Supposing your right... Since you "set about downloading as many of the top 30 or 40 shows as I could," and "the music was never meant to be free," it might do your karma good to cut Bob a check for the same 500 or so bucks (@ $15 a pop) he'll be seeking for the unlucky soul who stumbled across the archive a couple months later than you did. Up until now, it seemed that we paid for the privilege of sharing in and feeding the groove at a show, but simply listening to it later was a gift given to us by the band we loved.....

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 7, 2005 8:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Folks, it's time to be moving forward here, not looking back to respond to emotions of over two weeks ago now. Accept that you will have to declaim on this subject now at a better place such as deadnetcentral.com or your personal blog.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

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Poster: squints777 Date: Dec 7, 2005 3:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

dude the grateful dead should not be analagized with hurricane katrina.The music should be freely traded amongst the fans. Period, You're like one of those stingy tapers I had to deal with for so many years. You've got your tapes, but only certain people are deserving of sharing them with you. That's what made the archive so great. You could download whatever show you wanted, but you didn't have to deal with any red tape. Well I guess you got what you wanted. Hey maybe if I become cripple you can send me some tapes

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Poster: texsurfer30 Date: Dec 8, 2005 8:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

howdy folks I'm relatively new to the whole show trading concept and I'm not quite sure how it works, but to say that I am a fan of jerry and the boys would be a gross understatement. How can I contact someone regarding the trading of GD shows.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 8, 2005 8:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: trading pointer

Poke around at http://db.etree.org for instance, find a likely trader and ask them. Good luck!

Related FAQ: http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

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Poster: josewavo Date: Dec 7, 2005 6:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm afraid my friend, you have a very narrow viewpoint. The reason any concert is not allowed to be recorded is to prevent financial gains becoming realized by someone other then members of the band...any band. As long as we traded shows, copies of which were freely given in the form of boards BY the band, by the old conventional means, the volumn of music traded would never reach a point where the "official release" would ever be threatened. Now that the digital age has made it a 'volumn relative' threat, the Dead has renigged on a time honored system. We the public did not compromise the 'agreement' by selling copies of the shows. If that had been the case, the GDM would have been justified. This is simple a matter of a financial concern outweighing an artistic one.
One other note...most of the Katrina victums did not choose to stay, they had no other option. To overlook this small point is to reveal something about your own character I don't care to discuss, but it certainly is not reflective of the spiritually compassionate attitude for ALL peoples that was first prevelant in the early counter-culture.

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Poster: darkstargirl Date: Dec 17, 2005 2:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

to blueendo:

allow me to quote you if you please...

"That is a large part of what is wrong with our country today. We saw it in New Orleans after Katrina, when people who ignored warnings to get to safety stood around in the stink and complained about not getting handouts fast enough."

first of all, if you had no car, no money for a bus, all your families and friends were in the same financial situation, and the weathiest country in the world (your home) abandoned you in a natural disaster, you would have been standing "around in the stink" and complaining too. that is if you were lucky enough to have not drowned trapped inside your attic.

and then (to my continued amazement) you go on to say:

"We're seeing another version of it here, now. Men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once shared the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows have reduced themselves to scuffing toes in the dust and beating on their pots, acting for all the world like welfare queens, or, worse, looters."

i fail to see how we're "seeing another version" of hurricane katrina. for as long as the dead have existed, they have done so with a mentality that includes things like "music should be free," "the audience is just has much to do with the music as we do," and "once we've played it, it's yours." oh i get it... you mean that the heartless fools that currently run this country have gone against
all its principles in much the same way as whomever decided dead music must be bought?

you said it yourself, "men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once SHARED the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows." the operative word being SHARED.

do you hear yourself??? to recap your position:
1.) dead music should be bought
2.) all people too poor to evacuate a natural disaster deserve to stand around in the stink waiting to die.

gee, some hippie you are. i'm disgusted that you think of yourself as such. maybe you need to reassess your thinking a bit, eh?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 17, 2005 9:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

You are responding to a discussion going on a month old. The most constructive thing you can do here now is *not* to go on discussing this here. Thanks.

Here are a couple posts for context in case you missed them before:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50879
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

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Poster: ststvnfa Date: Jul 17, 2007 11:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

we are nowhere need the wealthiest country in the world, sorry, we do have the biggest debt however

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Poster: darkstargirl Date: Jul 19, 2007 12:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Seriously??? It has been about 6 months since I posted the posting you responded to. Do you seriously think your input is at all necessary at this point?

But if you insist:

You are correct that we are not THE wealthiest in the world. At the time I wrote that, I must have been so overwhelmed with anger that I rambled incorrectly. We are, however nowhere near the poorest. We think we are strong/big/powerful enough to police the rest of the world, and yet we can't seem to take care of our own (i.e. Katrina, Iraq, Health Care, etc., etc., etc.)

Besides, the point of this thread was that the sharing (or lack thereof) of Grateful Dead music is absolutely no comparison to Hurricane Katrina and its victims.

Did you really think it necessary to open this can of worms... AGAIN? I hope you reconsider before dragging out old arguments next time.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Jul 19, 2007 3:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

GDP: $13.13 trillion ... that 's hard to beat. Per capita with various adjustments puts us behind norway and quatar and a few others depending on how you rank. Factor in the ridiculesly high taxes and cost of living back in and I don't think there is any doubt, is there? Oh and also... WHO CARES!? We have the coolest bands, movies, dead forums, archives, jihadists, etc.

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Poster: darkstargirl Date: Jul 20, 2007 5:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Okay, you win... you obviously have more free time than I do. I have no time, not to mention patience for you at this point considering as I've previously stated:

1. This was not the POINT of the argument to begin with!
2. This thread is 6 MONTHS OLD!!!
3. You are clearly convinced that America has become a third world nation, and considering our current administration, you aren't too far off the mark.

Feel free to ramble on about that which is irrelevant and outdated all you want. I am done wasting my time and this website's bandwidth with all this nonsense. So, have at it! Knock yourself out! Just don't expect me or anyone else to waste another moment of our time dealing with it, or you.

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Poster: jodz Date: Jul 20, 2007 7:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

the dead are whats up and you seem down so goodbye dont go away mad just go away

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Poster: zoot from r7 Date: Dec 29, 2005 7:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

i don't know about anybody elsem but i would love to have 5/09/77 awonderful month i have 5/7 ,8, 17,21 but would love 5/09 buffalo and or 5/05 new haven let me know if we can arrange a trade

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 29, 2005 7:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: trade pointer

http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 29, 2005 8:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

got those sdbs - direwolf at flashmail dot com

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Poster: Hardley Date: Aug 23, 2007 12:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dude,

There are a number of alternatives...

You could try http://www.deadshow.com/. Their shows are Real Audio posts. You'll need to capture the stream from your sound card - it's a bit of a hassle, but the quality isn't bad.

The best source GD concerts would be New Groups. Again, a bit of a hassle, even more than capturing the feed from your sound card and you'll need a high speed connection if you don't want to grow old waiting for the download.

Concerts are posted in *.shn file format. Essentially, each concerts is broken into smaller pieces which have to be joined together (search for SHN on the net and you'll find the software that does this for you or try http://www.shns.net/ for an overview). Once joined, the complete concert is saved as a wav file. A fairly steep learning curve, but worth the effort. The quality of the shows are usually very good - many of the posts are from soundboard recordings.

One issue with using news groups is that the shows are posted for short periods of time - I guess its a storage issue. Another issue is that before (or during?) the individual files are joined there is some checksum stuff that goes on. If there is a problem, you sometime need to re-download one or more of the individual files. So, if you go the new group route you need to see if you can convert the shn file to a wav file quickly, because once that particular show is remove for the new group you're back to begging that those portions be reposted.

Hope this helps...

Now I don't know, but I been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
Other hand I have heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

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Poster: David Bolewski Date: Dec 18, 2005 6:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm not articulate enough to express in words how Grateful I am for the very human element of free sharing behind the Live music archive. All the people involved in making it happen. It really all happened by accident as Bob Weir walked passed a music store where Jerry was playing banjo and caught his ear.This was the result. Live music archive is part of Rock n Roll history indeed and should be inducted into the Rock n Roll hall of fame for there efforts and quality. Thanks for a real good time. Peace.

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Dec 18, 2005 9:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

RIGHT ON DAVE! Where are those petitioneers when you need them? This is a great way for an intern to spend their day. Is there an intern out there that wants to get an Archive.org petition up and running to get them into the R&R Hall of Fame? Awesome idea.

Cleveland, here comes the LAMA!

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Poster: qtpiesd24 Date: Jun 6, 2007 10:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hi, my name is Michelle...I don't know exactly whom I should talk to or contack concerning some original professionally taken photograph's of mainly Jerry Garcia, along with the GreatfulDead live in concert. The concert photo's range in sizes and on the back there is hand written the year of which they were taken and the location of the concert. I have browsed a few web sites that sell reprints of similar type pictures though these are the only ones of their kind. I was interested in selling them though I don't know where to beging to go. I know that they are worth money, hell if I had the means myself I could make poster's and reprints at various sizes and make a killing. Though I donot have the time, that is why I would like to sell them out right for one whole sum; of course being of a decent amount. Can you help me to head in the right direction of where or what I should do or go? I would be forever greatful to you.
Sincerely,
Michelle

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Poster: cush212 Date: Jun 6, 2007 10:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Try ebay or something like that...

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Poster: ascheylus Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Diana & archive.org: what ...forces you to be silent about what brought this off? Not speaking out against injustice is cowardice.

I only put the cussword in this post so you would have to read it.


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 19:02:42

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Poster: ascheylus Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=48498

This is rank cowardice. We have been betrayed. The music has stopped. The Grateful Dead have become a historical footnote.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 19:03:48

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Poster: peacenow Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I am wondering if this is in anyway related to the last post that was upped on the llama, which was brent interviewing the band. brent sounded pretty bad, and it was rather eerie hearing him ask jerry about almost dieing, and I wonder if that post somehow crossed a line. then again, could just be a coincidence. any thoughts?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=48833

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Poster: Deadwaves Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This is sad. It is the begining of the end of the era of the Dead. The Dead's scene managed to get along after Jerry departed. Now this is evidence that the suits have taken over and spoiled everyone's fun. So be it.

At least there are plenty of artist like Phil that value the community that has supported them and understand the tacit agreement we have in place.


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Poster: chun Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The preface to the GDP business plan, written by Jerry:

"We need to protect ourselves from believing that we are essentially a corporate entity"

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Poster: Tender Furry Date: Nov 26, 2005 2:37pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'd been waiting for the other shoe to fall for a while.

In theory, the Internet Archive is supposed to be a repository for all things....this place (IA) gradually turned into a Grateful Dead audio ghetto.

C'mon all you angry, childish Dead fans...it's almost 2006...it's time to wash the old musty tie-dyed shirts that you bought at the mall and get with the proverbial program. Anyone who's boo-hooing over a few mp3s and oggs needs to re-organize their mental space and pronto! How about taking some of your anger at IA and going outside and planting some flowers or veggies?

The Internet Archive owes none of us anything...if we were paying a monthly fee for these "Dead-downloads" then it would be reasonable to complain if the material were yanked. The current generation of Dead-heads seem to want everything...I know because I've read the posts here.

Those who've donated funds to IA on behalf of their Grateful Dead lust will have to act according to their hearts and minds...if people here want to boycott the Dead
in all it's forms, then that's their right...go for it

As an old, hardcore dirty hippie (from wy back) it saddens me to see such ridiculous greed oozing from a lot of the posts here in this area. If greed and unbridled lust (after recordings!) are now characteristics of the modern Dead-head, then as a card-carrying Dead-head I now officially am burning my membership card

Thanks to the IA for hosting all the Dead recordings these past few years - I downloaded more that there are seconds in an average week...especially glad to have gotten shows from 65-70

party on -
Tender Furry

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Poster: QtheE Date: Nov 26, 2005 2:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Out of appreciation to the Grateful Dead family for allowing these shows to be shared and traded I always did my part to voluntarilly buy GD merchandise

My policy to support the Band in this way ended with what I can only assume was the GD Corporation's decision to pull their recordings.

I'd be willing to bet someone thought they could make a lot of money by doing this - I predict that theory will backfire.

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Poster: QtheE Date: Nov 26, 2005 3:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition.html

...in case anyone is interested in voicing their displeasure

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Poster: amaher Date: Nov 25, 2005 12:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Stunned and saddened. I guess I am "grateful" for the music I was able to access. The great thing about the Archive for me was how easy it was. I have tried other places and just gotten really frustrated. Is there anything else out there like this? I am a far cry from my days when I had lots of time on my hands--it seems like yesterday being on tour in 1991--now more than full-time job, wife, 2 kids--I guess I am really torn because it was so great to have and really got me back to listening to the music again and now it is gone. I kind of feel set up and then cut down, and I question how IA was "asked" to pull down the boards. A great big thanks to everyone who made their music available to people like me and to those who helped facilitate it. It is truly a wonderful thing. We shall see what the future brings.

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Poster: Tamlin Date: Nov 25, 2005 1:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

From the point of the view of the extended organization they made a living but nobody got rich and this will make no difference to them.

From the point of view of a former aquaintence of Fuzzyman I would say if his ghost should appear he'd simply say "Nobody can stop you Just get up and find another way to do it - God help rock and roll if rock and roll needs help"

The music doesn't stop until you do

The ALF

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Poster: macfawlty Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

A friend turned me on to this site about a month and a half ago. I have been downloading like a FIEND ever since but didn't consider that it would all go away. Nonetheless, I already downloaded some 120 shows so I feel ever so GRATEFUL. During that time I also purchased the '69 LE Box set and downloaded a show from the Dead store. I have probably 20 of the Dick's Picks and despite getting free music from LimeWire and other sites, I continue to buy a lot of CDs. Rather than get tremendously upset about it all my biggest concern is that of availability (at whatever reasonable cost necessary). What I cannot fathom is that the music would not be available. I don't mind paying reasonably for music but it must continue to be available. Regardless of whoever is responsible for making the music unavailable, it must be made available on gdstore in download format. So charge modestly by the show or the song or whatever but don't take it out of our hands.

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Poster: RhodyRed Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:03pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Matt and Vernon, thanks for all your work. I am truly saddened. This archive was wonderful, it wasn't only the choice of shows but also the reviews, ratings and ease of searching. I had been really stoked discovering new eras of the Dead and really honing in on the shows that spoke to me. Hopefully this is temporary. Streaming isn't a viable option. Not sure why this occured but it's reasonable to assume it's based on revenue and economics. I've spend a lot of money over the years buying shows, tickets and what not. I've always pointed out to people that the Dead did things different and were able to survive just fine, and in fact prospered, by allowing tapers and such. Maybe now that the barrier to entry, for creating great sounding CD's, is so low with minimal costs incurred and the simplicity of trading shows so simple, the Dead have had to change policies and become more corporate. The particular reasons why are much less interesting the sad fact that a truly wonderful resource has been lost.

What a bummer of a way to start the day though. In the past I'd had deleted the Source files after downloading/burning to conserve space because after all the shows were on the archive... Now I wish I hadn't and I hope the few shows (only about 10) I have from the archive haven't been damaged because I don't know any tapers or traders from whom to get more music. And frankly I can't afford to spend $25-30 for a new show several times a year.

On a constructive note. Maybe something could be arranged where "members/patrons who donate a reasonable sum to the Archive" get priviledges to download. I'd pay $30-$50, but not $100 a year to be a supporter of the Archive if one of the privledges was downloading Dead shows again, possibly even without soundboards. Or I'd pay a nominal fee per show say $1 or $2 a disc. That way the Dead could be Donors by allowing the Archive to offer this service for "patrons", the Archive would be able to generate revenue to pay for storage, bandwidth, maintenance, salaries, etc., and the public would be still be able to be exposed to the wide variety of music.

Hopefully things will change back soon. Thanks, RhodyRed

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

...it wasn't only the choice of shows but also the reviews, ratings...

See the plan:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

"The metadata and reviews for all shows and recordings will remain available."

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Poster: bfuller Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Can someone point me to the original statement announcing this new policy? I've yet to find it.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This *is* the statement, at the top of this thread:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

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Poster: bfuller Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks Diana....back to blanks and postage I guess

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Poster: harold920 Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

So, whose decison was it to get rid of the soundboards? I have a quote that I would like us all to ponder. It comes from John Perry Barlow form the October 6, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone magazine. "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. Ithink it'll be a hell of a lot more possible it it's on Archive.org than if it isn't." So, who are you accountable?

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Poster: Frankie Flowers Date: Nov 22, 2005 1:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Dark Day

How darkly ironic that this wonderful resource should be silenced on the anniversary of the assassination of JFK. Nice timing. Couldn't wait for Jerry's birthday?

I commend the archivists for their work, and I thank all who contributed Dead concert recordings. I was able to relive some very special moments and explore some wonderful shows not already on any of my several Dick's Picks CDs.

I have already expressed my intense dismay to those responsible, a sentiment made all the more acute by the fact that I only discovered this resource quite recently. Luckily, I downloaded furiously until tonight.

I plan to boycot GDP as well, effective immediately.

-FF

Attachment: Garcia and Wolf.jpg

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Poster: dwill1188 Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

this is ridiculous! first they want no more gd posting and now no more free shows? thanks to archive for sharing all these great shows with us, but this is terrible....is there anything we can do to get the shows back??

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

first they want no more gd posting

If it helps, moving to a new collection may mean you'll get a separate GD collection messageboard on site by default.

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Poster: rm128 Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks to the Archive for this wonderful service.

I planned on buying Dick's Pick's entire set. I saved money
for it. I have 6-7 already that I was going to give to a friend and have a brand new complete set. It looks as if I will have the complete set.... only it will be on CDR's bought at wal-mart.

I rather burn the $650 with a match now...

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Poster: setver Date: Nov 26, 2005 10:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm very disappointed. This seems to go against the grain of what the Dead was all about.

I use the archive for two purposes:

1. I play in a band that wants to cover some GD material. We use the Archive to search for representative versions of important songs, both to understand the differences and to foster a better understanding of the way the tunes should actually be played. Now it's likely that the other guys in the band will stick closer to the album versions, which we all know is not correct.

2. To try to find the shows that I attended, in order to put my mental house back in order.

No foreseeable commercial replication of the archive's materials would contribute to either of those goals. I'm sorry to see the material go away.

The Internet being what it is, I don't expect the tunes to be forever gone; people will repost the material somewhere else. The actors who shut down the Archive will actually end up with less control of the material than they had before; and those looking for material will find less, with more effort. Everyone loses.

This post was modified by setver on 2005-11-27 06:55:10

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead covers

I play in a band that wants to cover some GD material. We use the Archive to search for representative versions of important songs, both to understand the differences and to foster a better understanding of the way the tunes should actually be played. Now it's likely that the other guys in the band will stick closer to the album versions, which we all know is not correct.

Wow, that's a pretty different approach to improvisational music there either way, not one I would have thought of as an improv fan! My favorite covers of anything are the ones that throw away the tapes and the albums as the cover band makes the song *their absolute own*. Current favorite cover bend: Kottke/Gordon's Walk This Way. Live at a show, MMW's Hey Joe is a personal favorite example too.

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Poster: WeighStation Date: Nov 28, 2005 3:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm bummed out - but you know the cats out of the bag, folks! There isn't a single show that was pulled from the archive that we won't be able to trade online. There's no reason to think things will ever go back to the old days where people traded tapes with each other. Online trading venues will arise where anyone can request any show and it can be emailed (or what have you) to them by someone who has it. Nothing has been lost, really...

Let's stop vomitting out vile hatred towards anyone ("what I want to know is are you *kind*!) and organize ourselves and keep the music flowing.

Just a little work and everything will just fine.

So by all means, calm down - we will survive!
the WeighStation

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 28, 2005 3:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: LET's trade Grateful Dead concert recordings that we DL'ed FROM the Internet Archive

come on folks. Let's trade all of this great stuff already! All of September and October of 1990 (except that which is commmercially available) fits on 3 DVDs. I'll mail them out to whoever wants them. We all know the Fall of 1990 was one of the last great tours. Sound is pristine, creativity is at a peak with Bruce Hornsby adding that much needed spark, yada yada. Come and get it!
disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 28, 2005 4:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: LET's trade Grateful Dead concert recordings that we DL'ed FROM the Internet Archive

I am willing to gather information and start listing, compiling for everyone what we all have (I have 100's of Archive DL's on DVD-R's) to get together all of us who would rather just leave this site to its devices and put the material back out there for free, by numerous digital means (please no more talk of tapes and B&P.....I mean, get real) :

1. Disc to disc trading
2. Hard Drive trading
3. A downloadable website

And you know what, if we have to mark all this content as 'The Unknowns', so be it. We all know. Apparently, they don't.

EMAIL THIS ADDRESS (EVEN IF JUST TO GET AN EMAILING LIST TOGETHER, NO COMMENTS NECESSARY IN YOUR EMAIL) : FREEDEAD2005atYAHOO.COM

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-28 12:03:35

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-28 12:04:55

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-28 12:46:43

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Poster: slowchange69 Date: Nov 28, 2005 5:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re:Where did alll this Soundboard Audio come from?

Where did alll this Soundboard Audio come from? As well as Un-compressed)
They are available somewhere.

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Poster: foxomoxoa Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Has anyone ever used "YouSendIt.com"? When files are too large for e-mail, this site provides a service that allows you to upload the file to their site and then send an e-mail notification to whoever you want with a link that leads to the download. Files can be up to 1GB in size. It worked pretty well the few times I've used it. Seems like a pretty simple way to trade.

Plus, of course, there's a million bittorrent shows out there as well.

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Poster: DeadJR Date: Nov 25, 2005 6:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I was never willing to be called a Dead Head.
I'm a hugh fan
I don't idolize nobody
I don't hang on nobodys word
I don't cream for pop stars, sport stars or celebs of any kind
The Dead are a good time good vibe happy people positive thoughts grassroots folk movement
The band and Jerry came as close as could be to being my focus group
The Archives my only beloved orginization
This is so disappointing and bubble bursting
I never made hugh collections ( I have under 100 mp3 discs)
I never anticipated this happening
I'm experiencing abandonment issues
I'm still naive enough to believe The Archives are just "Following Orders"
Why then did you not give us some warning so at least we could have done some panic downloading of 'must have' concerts
I never bothered, believing the good people at the archive would always be there, so why clutter my space with what will indefinitly be readily available downloads?
Can't we get a grace period to ease the withdrawel pains.
With all the millions the Dead made off their vibe, what happened? Was the 42 anniversary of JFKs assasination the time go capitalist on us?
Give us till New Years To get well.
It's only fair to give us a warning as to the coming of this big change.
I never thought 'mean' would be a term to describe 'The Archives'.
Meanwhile fellow Dead music enthusiasts...
enjoy www.gdlive.com before they remove that.
If anyone knows of other sources of quality Dead recordings
that don't entail to much computer knowledge...I'm a click and download and enjoy type a guy,
Please respond to this post and I'll be Emailed your good info.

Peace

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Poster: claus Date: Nov 25, 2005 6:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hi all of you everwhere,

i'm only an old german guy whose english is not as good as it might be, but i hope hat everyone will understand what i'm trying to say.

in europe we didn't have had much possibilities to see the GRATEFUL DEAD live in concert. me, i saw them in 1981 three times, in Essen, in Munich and in Paris. these events changed my whole life! from this time on i've known that there is a force in the world which try to change it to a better way. i don't understand all the textes they've sung but i understood the message of love.
with the internet i learnt more about the GRATEFUL DEAD. i learnt to know that it is still a strong cummunity. and the archive.....this was really the difference to any other group or musician worldwide. the idea of collecting all the shows of this unique band was great. many , many thanks to the archivists for this. now the archive is gone and i'm very very sade. what is now the difference to other bands. commercial is the only way they live. JERRY will turn out of his grave if he could. shame over all who stopped the archive.
i, for myself, i have about 500 GD-shows at home. i don't need the archive anymore. also i know other ways to get what i want. but i think a geat idea is dying.i remember JERRY GARCIA who said one day that the music when they have played it's no more their own. it's for everyone. free. for everyone!

i for myself, I WILL NEVER BUY ANY RECORD OF GRATEFUL DEAD MUSIC AGAIN. Dick Pick's are lost forever. if the idea of this music is dying noone need dick pig anymore! and i, i will put all my efforts in remastering the shows i've at home. and believe folks i know how to remaster (sometimes i think my products are better than jay ashleys....) i will give copies of them to all the people i know. just for nothing or only for the promise to give it to 10 people else. if there are some people who think that they can earn some money with a music which was not made to make some money they will not win this war. with winston churchill i can say:


AND WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER


Come on guys, do it like me. 10 people 10 shows for 10 other guys are .......... in this way we will make millions and millions of copies!!!!!!!
but NEVER buy or sell something which is related to the GRATEFUL DEAD - the greatest rock'n roll band that ever was.

claus

a lost german dead-head

p.s. if it was really phil's idea why can we still download the phish-shows from the archive??????????

nevertheless whose idea it was to pull off the shows from the archive [moderated]This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-25 17:56:18 .... oh we are censored.
[moderated] while big tears
are running down my ... oh i don't know the word. excuse me.

since the allies liberated us from the nazis in germany we are used to say what we think! so why do you censor me. it's my opinion. is it no more possible to tell his own opinion in the state of george w. bush? than we can even get the regime of the taliban ....


This post was modified by claus on 2005-11-25 18:13:26

[Please do not use foul language; that is what has been removed. Please do not add it back in again. Thanks. -mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-25 19:05:14

okay. but only because i've great respect of the work of all people working at the archive, and not because he isn't!



This post was modified by claus on 2005-11-26 02:15:29

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Nov 25, 2005 11:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

do you curse in public libraries in germany?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 25, 2005 11:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Uh, machts nichts at this point- move on like you said, man! ;)

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Poster: DaveB521 Date: Nov 25, 2005 10:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It is understandable why the Dead would want to pull some shows off this site. I don't blame them as they are a company and make money selling the Dicks picks. But one thing that is un-Grateful Dead like is this....don't allow us to have the music one day and then the next take it away. As for the many shows still on the site...why are they only available to stream? Bob, if you see this post let me tell you one thing...many of us have spent a small fortune supporting your tours over the years. If in fact you are responsible for being the modern day indian giver I will never patronize one of your venues again and will never buy any of your music again. I will however support Phil Lesh. You have really hurt your image with this issue. I suggest you allow some of the shows still on the Archive to be downloadable.

p.s. I saw your most recent show in Syracuse NY and it will be my LAST!!

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Poster: Billy DeLyons Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks to all of the people involved in the archiving/allowing downloads of Grateful Dead music all this time.

I am sad to see this awesome thing go away, and it I'd had known that this would happen (always thought it was too good to be true) I would have taken two months off of my job and downloaded/burned EVERYTHING.

Having said that - I have read many of the very negative posts on here and I hope that some people Grow Up. Guess we'll just have to go back to actually having to WORK a little bit to get the music we love.

I don't begrudge the Grateful Dead a retirement plan. Those guys worked hard for a long time. If I have (gasp) return to B&P trades it's not the end of the world.

It's been a Great Ride with the Internet Archive, and it's still the most amazing collection of free music in existence.

Viva le Archive! (And long live the Dead!)

Steve Urbauer
Lincoln, NE

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Poster: Christopher J Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First, let my wife and I say a heartfelt "thank you" to the Internet Archive for the wonderful resource that it is. We have downloaded political speeches, Buddhist lectures, and many other things over which we stumbled as we were downloading Grateful Dead shows over the past few years. Our beef is not with anyone from the Archive. To the surviving members of the Grateful Dead, however, we say this: We will never, ever, ever purchase any Dead-related product or service again. No Dick's Picks, no Download Series, no official release on Arista or any other label, and nothing with a dancing bear, steal your face, skull & roses, or any other symbol or image of the Grateful Dead, all of which have become so dear to us over the past thirty or so years (we actually met at a Grateful Dead show many years ago). Nor will we ever buy a ticket to any show with a former member of the Grateful Dead. And my wife is actually considering have her skull & roses tattoo removed from her skin via laser. After all these years of sharing the groove while making sure that we stuck to the no-money-must-ever-change-hands policy like glue, and making sure that we purchased the official commercial release of all things Dead to express our thanks---to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars!---they come out and do this FOR THE MONEY or at least for the POTENTIAL LOST REVENUE!

That's it. We're totally done. I literally just took my professionally-mounted photos and posters down from the walls of our home and have packed them in a box with all other Dead-related stuff including books, clothes, and more nick-nacks than I can possibly count. Thanks for the music, Bill, Bob, Mickey, and Phil, but we choose no longer to support your bands---spiritually or financially!---with decisions like this. We wish you and your families well, and may you all have peace within your hearts as you enter your "Golden Years," but we can no longer support four men who have little, if any, regard for their loyal fans who quite literally made it all possible.

Thank you,

Christopher and Lori Evans

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Poster: Michael Hughey Date: Dec 3, 2005 4:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'd like to start by saying what an absolutely fantastic job everyone at IA has done in compiling and making available to us all the magic that is the music of the Grateful Dead and many, many others. Your tireless efforts have brought so much joy to so many that words cannot begin to do justice, but to say thank you. Thank you also to all who have contributed their recordings to the benefit of all. None of this would be possible witout you, also. You know who you are. It's clear that your collective success exceeded our wildest imaginations - so much so that it became a perceived threat to the revenue projections of certain individuals.

I thank the Grateful Dead members and extended family for the music you have created and performed and for working and playing together with us, your lifelong fans, to generate The Grateful Dead Experience.

Now, the hard part. I can't begin to express my disappointment in this Bob Weir KBCO interview from Friday:

http://www.squeezeburger.com/bob.mp3

I don't know where to begin. I've seen hundreds of shows, bought everything commercially available, believed in this band, it's community and it's principles my entire adult life, and "seeya?!". Yes, a lot of people have over-reacted and spoken out in less than a justexactlyperfectly grateful manner. But please understand as you read some of the other very poignant posts that this development shakes core values in people's lives. You taught us enough about community and sharing to survive the "me decade" and two very turbulent decades before that. And then a 180-degree turn of tenet communicates to us that, well, community is no longer as important as MP3 sales "The future is here, you are it, you are [now] on your own." And you didn't have the decency to tell us.

Phil spoke to us when he found out. Thank you, Phil. So did Mickey and John Barlow. Thank you both. Dennis took positions. That's the job, I guess. And now Bob has spoken -and turned a page for tens of thousands of us.

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Poster: onemanguitar Date: Nov 28, 2005 2:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First of all I have to say I love the Archive. But I do want to vent a little bit about the removal of the GD sbds and auds.

I've never felt the need to collect every show, or anywhere close. But I'm upset because I only downloaded about 7 GD shows and listened to them thoroughly. I postponed downloading more becuase of all the bands posted here, I figured the GD would surely be around here for some time.

The removal off both auds and SBD is ridiculious. There is no reason for this outside of money/greed.

Many people have posted saying, they are no longer touring, so they need the money. Are some of you forgetting that the GD was one of the most profitable groups in the history of music? If the members have squandered their earnings (which I doubt) they certainly don't deserve my money.

I refuse to buy any GD merchandise from this point on, until at the very least, AUDs are available in lossless download again. I understand that SBDs should be removed before an official release, and I can see how they might justify removing all SBDs in general, but the removal of all downloads is a slap in the face.

If the Grateful Dead company really needs more money than they are bringing in, they need to downsize, instead of making the fan base suffer. Phish downsized when they broke up......I have trouble believing with all of the GD related releases we get every year, that a reasonably sized company would have trouble staying afloat, or even making a sizable profit. It sounds to me like people that were not in the band are getting greedy, and the band (at least some of the members) is allowing it to happen.

I refuse to financially support any of the members until I get an explanation.

Long live the archive!!!

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Poster: Paul Chumsky Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dear Mark, et. al.,



I'm not sure if you will consider this constructive or not. I understand business and I appreciate capitalism. I’m a partner at a CPA firm and a graduate from the Wharton School. But I also believe that greed is not attractive. Honestly, I thought that you guys were different, and I refuse to believe that this would have happened if Jerry were still alive. What is enough profit?



I can’t speak for everyone, and I’m sure that there are a lot of “dead beat” downloaders just as there were losers who would spend their money on gas to get from venue to venue to beg for their “miracle” ticket. But I have purchased from the Grateful Dead just about everything you have chosen to put out commercially, even if I already had a bootleg copy. This includes all 36 (so far) Dick’s Picks, all Vault recordings & all boxed sets. I have downloaded all of the Download Series so far.



I did this because I am a collector of great music (especially Dead music) and because I appreciate the quality and care the Grateful Dead have put into their published recordings. I also did it this way because I can afford to. Many of your fans (especially possibly new, younger fans – I see them at shows still) can not.



Didn’t Owsley Stanley give out free tastes in the Haight back in the 60’s to stir up interest in his product? According to what I have read, he gave away about 50%. If you show your quality, the sales would be there.



Once again, I am deeply disappointed. Another era has ended



Sincerely,



Paul

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Poster: tigerrose Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

These guys can do whatever they want with their sbds. Nonetheless, it is a disgrace that some of them tour singing and playing Jerry Garcia/Hunter songs for a profit. Do they not realize the rest of the band is nothing without Jerry Garcia. This decison will bite them in the long run as they will never recrute another generation of deadheads again with this decision. The ego that these "musicians" have today. I guess the Bush Administration is now running the Grateful Dead camp. I wouldn't be suprised if this is Debora's doing. Go Big business

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Poster: Teaklee Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I want to thank the archive for putting together the definitive collection of live Dead music. Thanks to all those who have contributed source files to build this archive, and thanks to the band for allowing all this in the first place.

By the time I discovered the archive I had built my collection of SHN disks through trade and B&P. While it was great having access to every show, we must all now go back to the way it was. Trading...meeting and getting to know poeple who dig the same things you do...is that sooo bad? I've met several friends through tape and disk trading. So a whole new group of fans will have to do the same. Hey the Soundboards are still out there!!! Now more people then ever have them!!! Lets look at the cup half full people!!

Don't be so quick to blast GDP for this move...we don't know its financial condition is. I do beleive that they are still supporting several people who have worked the the band and this live archive is the only "golden egg" left. Let's allow them to address this to thier core fan base. Perhaps they will lower the DL cost? Doubtful...but who knows. Give them a chance to respond.

It is a very bad business move to piss off your core fans and also I think the live music archive provided a way for people to discover the band they will now loose that. So let's see what happens

All in all, it is a very sad day.

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Poster: CatFanInTheBathtub Date: Nov 29, 2005 1:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

After reading most os these above posts I am even further convinced that many of you have completely lost your marbles. This is NOT THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD !!!! The Grateful Dead "died" when the music was removed??? GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK! How can you people possibly call yourselves fans of this band but then turn on them so quickly when they make a decision? Have you opened you mind for one second to try to see things from their point of view? They are in a business just like everyone else, and their "product" was being freely distributed in ways they never could have predicted. Are you people forgetting that three years ago there was no LMA and you were in the same boat you're in now?? Are you forgetting that there are SEVERAL other sites RIGHT NOW where you can download dead shows ? Are you forgetting how many years this band played free and nearly free shows, and took financial losses on tours because they were hauling around the wall, because the music was more important to them than making money? I truly believe that most of you doing the bitching are more pissed at yourself than anything....You're pissed that you didn't download more shows before they were gone, and now you want to blame the musicians for taking away something they never really authorized you to have in the first place. I'm sorry but just because they let people record shows 30 years ago doesn't mean they intended for soundboards of every show to be readily available to anyone instantly in 2005. There's a bit of a difference there and if you can't see it then you're blind to the truth. PLEASE EVERYONE, I'M BEGGING YOU : Stop with all this "what would Jerry think" and "the day the music died" crap and flowery I-ate-a-thesaurus-for-breakfast letters to executives and move on in life. I'm sure each and every one of you has much bigger problems.

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 29, 2005 3:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert...Forget it...There's a David Gray show on here that is really good.

The post that I replied to is awesome. You're funny catinabathtub orwhateveryournameis.

There's a David Gray show on here that is really good.

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Poster: AMDEW Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Wow, thats pretty much all I can say...
First I would like to thank archieve and all the people who spent countless hours uploading these shows for all of us to enjoy. You have done a great service for all of us, I know I have had countless hours of enjoyment from your hard work.

However GD merch(and any others involved in this decision), unbelievable! This is against everything that this band has believed in for over 30 years now. I would love for you to have one more family meeting, the kind where all the decisions were made for this band...Just think for a couple minutes if this ever would have flown with the leader of the band??
In my heart I know he is looking down on all of us shaking his head. He wasn't in it for the money, but now aparently the people that are running this are, what a sad day for the community.
I believe he once said "once were done playing them...I don't care what you do with them, their yours"...well I guess not anymore...very sad and disappointing.

"She wants money...money, money, money" Never a big fan of this song(till today), but oh how it rings true today.

The music never stopped...back to trades we go!

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Poster: PhunkyZen Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://streamripper.sourceforge.net

don't let greed stop people from getting some love :)

jerry would truly be saddened by this project being abruptly stopped.

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Poster: Packy Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"You let me down, man. Now I don't believe in nothing no more. I'm going to law school"
-Jimbo Jones

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Poster: dead trail Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Does the imagery of the little boy with his finger in the dyke come to mind? Who is the little boy? It's a massive ocean of music that's now on the loose and the internet has many places to share. Between all of us that have been downloading, every show worth it's salt is now out of the bag. "Don't neglect to pick up what your share is!" "WE WILL SURVIVE!"

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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Is that Debbie the dyke???
It's time to get organized and share the wealth- We all have some if not all of the sbd's so how do we work around this little bump in the road to make them availlable again in an organized manner like IA provided?
Kevin Anderson
Vermontdeadhead

This post was modified by Vermontdeadhead on 2005-11-22 19:16:04

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Poster: Cullen Sweeney Date: Nov 27, 2005 12:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

My thoughts on the Dead's Great Leap Backward:

http://cullensweeney.com/archives/2005/11/27/requiem-for-the-dead/

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Poster: tgvas Date: Nov 27, 2005 12:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

My letter to GDP:

Dear GDP and Band members

My first show was at the capitol theatre in Portchester, NY, 1969 or 70 I think, and 437 shows shows since ending in 93. And then again to all but three shows in 2004.
I must have spent enough to buy a house today, on tickets, t-shirts, CDs, etc etc,

Well, with respects to you all, I love you, but I will no longer attend any Dead Shows, nor any shows Bobby, Phil, Bill or Mick do from now on.

Removing downloads from the public, as Jerry and I might add, you all meant it to be, takes the spirit right out, the whole meaning of the dead is gone,

I'm sorry, truly, but this old deadhead will not support "Just another" Musical Group.
Good-luck, best to each of you, but the music died on 11-22-05,

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 27, 2005 1:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

An absolutely astounding piece of writing Cullen!!
Anyone who fails to be moved by this, whatever side of the issue they may be on, is brain dead.
I hope you sent a copy to GDP or the band's Email??
Very nice work, I'm speechless.
Dr. Flashback :-)

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 27, 2005 4:31pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you.

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 27, 2005 10:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Great piece of writing, sums up everything just exactly perfect.

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Poster: Musical Mountain Man Date: Nov 23, 2005 10:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I first want to say thank you for all of the folks who have helped to sustain the archive. The current issue is frustrating, but we cannot deny the amount of incredible music and information that is still available on this website because those musicians, individuals, etc. that continue to contribute believe in what it truly stands for, which is ultimately the spread of information and knowledge.

At the same time with this current issue I place blame on no one. Rather it is a symptom of the business and our society. The biggest disappointment for me, personally, is that the Grateful Dead have represented the anti of what this issue is truly about since the beginning. Or at least I like to think that is what they represented as a group of people and a band. Corporate interests, profit margin, etc. can sicken anyone, no matter who you are obviously.

I still will visit this site no matter what other individuals may have posted here, and I will still support the Grateful Dead and what I feel they have always stood for in the past. This is a blemish, but we shouldn't condemn a group of people who have given us great memories, friends, and most importantly music. If it is one bad seed in the bunch, so be it, but let us not judge the whole.

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Poster: desmond monster Date: Nov 23, 2005 9:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

yikes. I guess the music finally stopped.

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Poster: jeffsetz Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Send emails to everyone associated with the Grateful Dead. I just fired off one to GDM and told them of my displeasure with today's news. I also mentioned that I will no longer be making any purchases through them, including a list of things I was going to order as Christmas gifts from the current almanac. I also told them that I would stop purchasing the downloads they offer. I downloaded like crazy from the archive, while still buying everything the Dead officially released. Hit them in the pocket book is always a great way to send a message. In the meantime, I'll be burning LOTS of discs and sreading them freely.

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Poster: caspersvapors Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:14pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

November 23, 2005

To the Grateful Dead Organization,

Hello, my name is Ben Davis, I am a 20 year old college student at UC Santa Cruz. I would first like to say that I have been a Grateful Dead fan as long as I can remember, it’s the music I grew up with since my father (as well as other family members and close friends) has been a Deadhead since the 70’s and has seen hundreds of shows himself. That said I would like to iterate that I believe GDP’s decision in removing the Dead’s music from the Live Music Archive on archive.org is incredibly surprising and disappointing.
Being young, I missed out on thirty years of live Grateful Dead shows. The music archive allowed me to tune into the Dead on a daily basis and it brought the music to my attention in a whole new way. I came to love the Grateful Dead more. I downloaded and burned my own concerts as well as turned other people onto the Dead. And doing this did not stop me from purchasing Dick’s Picks, Dead DVD’s or any other Dead merchandise. I have even bought officially released Dead shows that I had already downloaded/listened to on the archive. In fact I have spent more money on Dead merchandise than I have on any other media commodities in the past year. Furthermore, I am not an exception to the rule. The majority of people on the archive listen to the music there and still purchase the official releases by GDP.
I really do not understand this decision and I do not think the people on GDP understand that magnitude of this decision. People are very upset and many long time fans are now boycotting the Dead. I find this measure extreme and somewhat irrational, but considering what the Grateful Dead have stood for and exemplified over the years I can understand their decision. I urge you to please allow the archive to circulate these shows again.

Sincerely,


Benjamin P. Davis



“I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible it it's on Archive.org than if it isn't."
–John Perry Barlow

“So, on one level it's amusing that people make so much stuff out of this and on another level, I believe it's their right to do that, because in a way the music belongs to them. When we're done with it, we don't care what happens to it”
-Jerry Garcia

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Poster: harold920 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Who are you serving by taking away the soundboards of the grateful Dead? There is an article in the October 6, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone magazine praisng your work. There is a qwuote from none other thatn John Perry Barlow. "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible if it's on Archive.org that if it isn't." What is your response to not only the legions of fans but to a member of the Grateful Dead Family?

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Poster: mops&brooms Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Just like the small window of time when LSD was legal and the Dead incubated and hatched, now the unlikely window on their free unlimited soundboard downloads and streams has also closed. But hey, how about opening it back up just wide enough for us to be able to pay you for the music? Can't you make available once again all those tasty shows INCLUDING THE INCREDIBLY FUN TO LISTEN TO STUDIO REHEARSALS for a price? No shame in that. You guys are running a business. It's all your intellectual property and no one should expect something for nothing. I think I'm leaning to the right in my old(er) age.

Who remembers that guy they interviewed during the intermission in the Grateful Dead Movie who refused to speak and went off about usage rights and stuff like that? He cracked me up.

BRING BACK THE MUSIC!!!!!!!! (please)

Thank LMA for everything you do.

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Poster: mops&brooms Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

PLEASE BRING BACK THE STUDIO REHEARSALS!!!!

Thanks LMA.

Let's not get our armpit hairs all in a knot. We can do without some of that anger.

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

harold that was an awesome point made about barlow. if a... member of the dead family is praising archive- then what... are you thinking? besides going to war, this is one of the worst decisions anyone has ever made.

[moderated- please do not use foul language. -mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 11:17:03

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Poster: East Coast Date: Nov 30, 2005 5:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Honestly, that this download site has been shut down is a shame because it opened up an easy venue to download entire shows. Furtunately for me I was able to download all the shows I wanted and although there were more I could have I was not hard pressed to down load more.

Whether or not the Grateful Dead are losing possible revenue due to the free downloads, the Grateful Dead and ruling families have no one to blame but themselves. I remember reading an article in Relax (mid 90's) about how they were redoing all the old archive tapes and that they would possibly release them for sale and you could have any show you wanted. Well I waited and waited and waited and that day never came. I waited through countless butchered Dick's Picks which had half shows and missing songs and an endless supply of pre 80's Dead which were sporadically realeased - maybe 3 a year ( which I did buy) and still no release of the full catalog. My first show was in 82. I never saw them in the 70's. I wanted to hear shows that I saw.

Along comes archive org, I don't have to wait anymore. I finally got to download the show I attended. Some were SB some were AUD but now I had copies. I am content. Am I sad the GD family may have lost money...nope. The paradygm changed and you didn't and now you've angered alot of people.

Oh yeah enough of "what would Jerry do"...Jerry would push off the problem and go do some Persian...If you really want to know what Jerry would do...go ask Bob Wier's sister, apparently she talks to him.

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Poster: corpclegg Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This is very sad news for lossless traders everywhere.
your telling us your converting the music to no lossless.
so you can pollute the lossless music out there with this crap.i wont be getting any music from your site. same go's for all other LOSSLESS bootleg traders out there.Why do you think the band let fans have there own area to record in? jerry and the band knew what the fans wanted and gave it to them.so they and others could enjoy the shows for years to come. before you go any farther ask yourself is this what jerry would want? I think not!!
Sad Lossless music trader
corporal clegg


Attachment: jerry.jpg

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

In regard to lossless vs lossy: GD lossy derivatives have been made available here from the lossless parents for over a year, to little or no complaint. Since the now lossy-only public files will be formally moved out of the LMA into a separate collection (read Brewster's comments), their not being lossless will *not* be an issue affecting the LMA collection's philosophy.

In regard to trading: Any band's policy with respect to the Internet Archive may differ a lot from their policy with respect to trading. Current example: Dave Matthews Band. Example: Phish. Example: Galactic.

What is known about Dead trading:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/gdnotice.txt
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/gdp.txt

Note the differences in those from what is posted in Brewster and Matt's message.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-22 18:44:28

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Poster: jethrowhitefish Date: Nov 27, 2005 5:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This is one of the saddest days ever. A band that fostered a trading community for years telling us all to [moderated] so they can make more money. Is there anything that can be done so that we can get these shows back? This was the very best place to find shows. I will really miss the Grateful Dead stuff. Thankfully, there are still other great bands out there who still allow their music to be spread around in this wonderful forum. The Grateful Dead died with Jerry on that sad August morning. It seems to me the rest of the band or who ever is in control of their stuff have become worse money whores than we could have ever expected.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-27 13:41:59

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Poster: tgvas Date: Nov 27, 2005 6:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Just tripped in after not visiting for a few months, and find this terribly sad news.

"Jerry would not be happy at all."!

I have been able to download and record shows from 1965, 66,67,68,69,70,82,93, part of 94 all of 95 and 2004. Some shows from other years as well.

(My first dead show was 69, last was 93, in between I've attended about 400 shows, so this is near and dear to my heart)!

If anyone wishes to have them, I will be happy to ""trade""", but it will take me some time before I have the time to transfer from CDs back to flacs.

All of my recordings were from flac or shns no lessor mp3 recordings.

Let me know, I'll keep a list of people who want them, postage and disks or HDs will be the only cost, Whatever it cost me for material, it will cost you, I want no profit from this, as JERRY meant it to be.

my email is: entreat@rcn.com

I am in the process of building a house, so right now time is not there to get any of this done, but later, I think we might all be able to trade and together make up for this terribly sad loss. (Sign of the times people)!

Thanks to Archieves for doing what that could, and have for so long.

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Poster: Moses610 Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I sent the following email to the webmaster of dead.net and the customer service email of the GD store. I thought I would share this in case others thought that this was a good idea and wanted to do the same. It probably won't make any difference, but it's true, and I wanted them to know that they are losing (a tiny bit) of money.

*****************************************************
Hello,

I am just writing to inform you that I have removed the "So Many Roads" boxed set from my reqeusted gifts list. I am a big fan of the Dead, but I have come to the decision that I will not support the Dead financially due to your decision to deny access to non-commercially released sounboards. This was a hard decision for me to make, as I have wanted the box set for a long time. Please know that I will suffer from the lack of music, as you suffer from the lack of business. I do however, want to commend you on having the courage to make this decision just before the holiday shopping season; you could just have easily done this in January, and you showed some class in risking your seasonal sales. Should you change your minds, and allow the free dissemination of non-commercially released soundboards, I will be the first in line to buy the So Many Roads boxed set.

Yours truly,
Noah

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Brewster, thanks for the info. Over the past year I have thoroughly enjoyed the access to Dead shows. I learned a lot about the process of digital download's and the music in which I love so much. The scope and magnitude of this situation is complicating my thought process, and because of my love for their music, I have only one thought right now, I am grateful for what I have. Seems like this was all a dream. I felt this site put us close to the band by allowing us to share in their history. Brewster, please, if there is anything I can do to help the situation, please ask. I LOVE THIS MUSIC. I study it. there is something highly interesting about hearing a song over and over again but being differet.....
Again, thank you for a real good time.

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Poster: HarveyII Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

responding to LMA folk:

thanks ever so much for your work. i appreciate it more than you can you ever know.

responding to GDM/GDP/the Band:

Do Ne Wa. I've bought all the all the music that deemed releaseable. Good or bad. Now you do this. You'll never get another $ from me.

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Poster: ReddyKillowatt Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Man, this is one of the worst things that has happen to me in a while. I'm really going to miss all this grateful dead music, and I listen to them all. Bad Move. Bad Move.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I will boycott the Grateful Dead merchandise machine for a long while as a result of this...I'm sick that the band caved to Koons, Lesh and a bunch a twat lawyers...Phil you can go take your $50 tickets and your other crap and go f*ck yourself, you greedy bastard...



This post was modified by stratocaster on 2005-11-22 17:21:21

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Poster: Cpt.Trips Date: Nov 29, 2005 8:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

this whole thing sucks!!! the koons [] needs to be stopped!!! is there any proof that phil had a hand in this? i will be extremly dissapointed if its true.....St Stephen will remain all he's lost he shall regain

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-29 16:13:45

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Poster: sugaree63 Date: Nov 25, 2005 9:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I had a feeling Koons was after money. After all, she has the power to do that. I did not have the idea that Phil was up to some of this. Does anyone know what each of the band members' position is about this? What and where did Phil's position come out?

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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I just got turned on to this site about a month ago and was able to get crispy copies for my own enjoyment of all the shows I attended. I was just starting to build the library and had the 65 show and almost all the 66 that was available when the plug got pulled today. What a BUMMER.:(
I do purchase ALL the Grateful dead and Jerry.com releases that come out officially- Just got my preorder of the 69 Fillmore limited edition today. So if this is the GDP greed factory at work then shame on you. What ever happened to the "Once we're done playing it it's yours" mentality that Jerry expoused?
Thank you for the opportunity as short as it was.
WWJD?
Kevin Anderson
P.S. Feel free to put the 1000 plus soundboards that got yanked back on anytime.

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Poster: sanrafaelandgrumpy Date: Dec 19, 2005 1:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm no lawyer but I always thought when a person let the public use say, a private road, after seven years that road became public property if it wasn't closed to public use for several days in that seven year period. Forget the letter of the law, what about the spirit? I'm very disappointed in the decision to remove a wonderful music resource I was able to show to younger people who were unable to see the real thing. When Jerry died I assumed school was over and we were supposed to go out and use what we learned. Perhaps some parties in control of the music should go back and reread the lessons THEY GAVE US and start using what THEY TAUGHT. Not to cast dispersions but this has all the markings of the work of Darth Vadar in a Dress if you know who I mean. I think it was Phil who once said "Once we play the music we're done with it." I guess not. To bad Phil isn't in control of this mess. I hope someone sees the error in their ways ancd corrects this situation, not half way either!

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Poster: Doc Hollywood Date: Dec 19, 2005 8:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Anyone else notice that gdlive.com is down for the last 3 days or so?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 19, 2005 9:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: gdlive, revisted

Yes

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-19 17:14:43

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 19, 2005 2:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

You are responding to a month-old topic. Here are a couple posts for context in case you missed them before:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50879
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-19 10:11:27

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Poster: smi2les Date: Dec 19, 2005 9:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Not is there only DSO > MIGHT AS WELL,etc.......but also a new one > http://www.archive.org/details/Top_Dead_Center_Eds_Exit_May_2004
Bobby and Phil are both in the city on NYE, but at two separate venues........WHAT UP ?
It ain't like the North Beach dayz, when you could just blow in from down the block.
Are we the VICTIMS OR THE CRIME ?

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Poster: N_Carolina-HEAD Date: Dec 20, 2005 11:37pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Help! Help!

There was a GD recording that I would listen to at least once a week. I happened upon it on this wonderful site.
It was from I think '65 or '66 ('67 at the latest). It was a studio recording that included "Early Morning Rain" and about 5 other songs. "E-M-Rain" was one of the most beautiful things i have EVER heard. Can someone please help find this, if fills my spirit every time. I would be happy to just stream it and would be ecstatic to download it.
Any help out there? Many thanks!

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Poster: mcglone Date: Dec 20, 2005 11:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

11-3-65

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=14656

more good news, gordon lightfoot is still with us in this mortal coil...

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Poster: N_Carolina-HEAD Date: Dec 21, 2005 12:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you much, don't know how I forgot that date!
It says it is available to stream, but does not show where I can access the stream?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Dec 21, 2005 12:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: How to stream

On the left side of the page it says:

Stream Show:
Hi-Fi

Click on Hi-Fi.

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Poster: N_Carolina-HEAD Date: Dec 21, 2005 3:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Sad situation all around!

Hey not the best of situations and not exactly following along with their legacy, but come on! I would not, and alot of you would not, be the type of person I am today and have had the joys and gifts that GD helped lead me to. i also would not be the fan I am was it not for my older brother giving me his tape collection or an older buddy getting me started with some prime tapes. It was that sense of community and sharing that has led us to this point in our fandom. Shit, how many bands have ever let audiences record their shows, much less set aside a prime spot for them to do so. One of the topics that I have picked up on is those saying how groundbreaking this practice was and how many of these bands that we freely listen to today may have never adopted that model or may not have been around to have adopt it!
Archive.org, as it pertains to GD downloads, is great (especially for the old stuff) but was almost too easy. Is easy web-access to the music the best way to further and grow this community that we have all worked so hard to with...Or is a return to the roots of tape trading mixed with some on-line downloads the best way? I don't have the exact answer, maybe that is what we shoudl be discussing.
But in the end the music is there and if to get it we have to reconnect in the process...so be it...
Peace Everybody!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 21, 2005 4:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin on'

Please consider all prior discussion that has occurred on this topic in the last month, rather than rehashing anything now. Thanks.

Here are a couple posts for context in case you missed them before:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50879
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

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Poster: beccavan Date: Dec 21, 2005 4:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin on'

I am on a 10 year quest in search of three specific shows. Only parts of them were available at gdlive - then I found this site, which is exciting as I listen to streaming as much as I d/l. Alas I still haven't found what I am looking for...
Any suggestions search suggestions/tips or resources recommended for querying this site? (03/18-19-20/1977 Winterland)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 23, 2005 3:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: trading resource pointer

Links in this FAQ may help, good luck!
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

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Poster: rizzrazz Date: Feb 16, 2007 12:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Help.

This will be my post on archive.org. I had about 250gb of Archives old SB recording and when entering the country (I was returning from Costa Rica where I had been living) My computer was taken by customs. Now I have no music so if there is anyone old head with a kind heart who might be willing to help me out my email is rizrazz@gmail.com

Peace and Love,
J

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 16, 2007 1:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help.

US Customs? If so, for what reason did Customs take your computer-just music?
If they check it out, you can't get it back?
What's your story?
(I know, lot's of questions, I perfer to give my country the benifit of the doubt until proven otherwise)
There are a TON of Bands & Shows you can DL here.

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Poster: dreamplanet9 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

thanks for all your hard work
sharing the light is what it has always been about.
I stumbled into the archive just yesterday and felt like a little kid loose in a candy store.
all those shows that where the vehicle guiding us through the bardo night after night.
being there
and these recordings like the tardis transporting us beyond physical reality to the formless
how could they not reappear
breathe deep ... surrender...remember
remain in light
jerry lives

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Poster: slamb1967 Date: Dec 8, 2005 1:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

First I would like to thank archive.org for all of the wonderful music that I have listened to for the last year or so. You guys do wonderful things and I do appreciate all of the music that I have discovered here.

It would be nice if people stop whining about the Dead from pulling soundboards. Why can't you all just be grateful for the time that the music was available? The situation could be worse. The Dead could have said that none of the shows could be placed here, not even audience recordings.

Now might be the time that people go and explore some new music and stop expecting the Grateful Dead to fill all of their music needs.

Thanks
Sean

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Poster: DEADBUCK Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

New steal your face ideas....one with the IA symbol in it...or maybe with a big dollar sign in it.....I can almost sympathize with em but they must realized that when they cancelled the boston run in 95 to close the gahden they cancelled alot....and its ok they did cuz im outa grass and their music sucks w/o jerry. These other ones are now gonna end up like peter frampton...playing used up amusement parks...notice they dont fill stadiums anymore...cuz they let the music stop....they let the wheel stop and the lightning got em....something jerry kept from happening with all the piano players they pissed through...enuff said...ten years and jerry is ripped away again....and Happy Thanksgiving....Brokedown douche bag.
I am going out to shoot a deer now...and f your need to capitalize.

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Poster: Jellybones Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

UNBELIEVABLE.



Well, it is believable, I'm just in denial. No way I'd ever pay twenty bucks to download some .shn's, I've dropped thousands on Dead stuff over the years, especially concerts. I own all thier studio albums, lots of dicks picks and live releases, a bunch of dvds, shirts, posters....

This site allowed me to really get into various periods of the Dead's history, and only made me want to buy any specific releases that were out from each period. No more exploring, no more experimenting looking for new sounds and shows... unless you have $19.99 on your credit card available.

Thank you archive and the contributers for letting me get what I could in the time it was available.

To the boys...WHY? (I understand people think its not them, but as far as I know, they still own thier own rights...you don't think they get the final say?)

Hans in Jax

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Poster: hzgone Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

if i read the two documents that diana put up correctly, then you can't trade the commercially released version that the dead has put out. It still says you can trade other soundboards, just not they ones that were put out by the dead. So why pull everything off the archive. Why not just pull what was release by the dead and leave the rest. I don't get what is going on. For all the tapers that uploaded aud versions, why are those not avail? Everything that has been posted on why the shows were pulled does not make any sense at all.

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Poster: terrapin_john Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

If you donated money to help support the Grateful Dead music on the Internet Archive, I encourage you to ask for it back.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffjohn@gdradio.net Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

responding to this news with a level of maturity isn't very hard, is it?

thanks LMA for the great service you provided

thanks GDP for permitting it for as long as you did (i'm amazed it lasted even THIS long)

and to those who feel hurt and betrayed...

just like the old days

TAKE A STEP BACK

start getting to know your brothers and sisters again and get back to tradin'.

peace

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Poster: staylorrr Date: Nov 22, 2005 8:58pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

terrapin_john wrote:
> If you donated money to help support the Grateful Dead music on the Internet Archive, I encourage you to ask for it back.

Yeah, cause we all know this was archive.org's decision... (eyes rolling, sarcasm).

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Poster: ChinaDog Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"just another corporate logo"


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you to everyone at the LMA who made this experiment possible while it lasted. It will be sorely missed. It can't get over how narrow-sighted this seems, from both a marketing and public relations perspective.

We will get by...

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Poster: freak16 Date: Nov 25, 2005 12:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I would first and upmost like to thank archive.org and those that have been resposible for bringing us these great shows.
I have always understood (and have never had a problem with) the reason why board tapes have been removed befor the band had released them for sale either as dick's picks or any other release.
I would like to know the reason why all the uploaded audiance tapes have also been removed so we can nolonger down load them. For 30 years I have always enjoyed aud. tapes and always will. The GD had no problem allowing us to make tapes and trade them so why can't we contiue to do so on this great web site.
On a last note I have enjoyed many of the great sound boards from this site and other sites but it has never stoped me from buying the Dead's releses.I think what they have done is wrong and I hope they will see the errors in this decision and correct it.
Thanks Freak.

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Poster: CatFanInTheBathtub Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I for one support their decision. Not because I think it is a good thing, but because I am giving everyone involved the benefit of the doubt. I think everyone should be appreciative of what was given to them for the time it was given. It's sad that all of the above posts are so derogatory instead of thankful and GRATEFUL. If you've visited the site often as I have, you may have noticed that shows have been repeatedly removed from the archive as they were commercially released, as a DixPix, DVD, etc. Basically, YOU HAD TO KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS COMING. I certainly thought it might and decided to download the shit out of the thing. As a result, I racked up hundreds of shows for my enjoyment. If half of you were as "deadicated" as you claim, you would have done the same.
I really wish everyone here was not so quick to judge and point to dollar signs as the motivation here, as if it was a bad thing. We are all trying to make money. I suppose Microsoft should start giving away software, Bill has enough money. The Oil execs are rich too, so I guess gas should be freely distributed !
My point is this : most likely, it is not the archive that brought this on. Anyone familiar with the other most visted file sharing (bit torrent) sites out there might know that officially released dvds are going around as this is written. I would also guess that at least a decent percentage of you people out there bitching up a storm have at least one burned release, even if it is crap like Built to Last.
In sum, WAKE UP, YOU SNOOZE YOU LOSE, and make sure you aint throwin' stones while living in a glass house!

p.s. THANK YOU JER, BOB, PIG, PHIL, KEITH, TC, MICKEY, BILLY, BRENT, I guess donna, DAN, AND UNCLE BOBO AMONG MANY OTHERS for helping to create some of the most beautiful art in history and showcasing it with such force, AND...THANK YOU ARCHIVE FOR PUTTING IT ON MY SHELF!!!

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Poster: Mark Michaels Date: Nov 27, 2005 9:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Well, yeah, what that first guy said.....sorta.

I'm sad that "I snoozed, I loozed". After my first 40 shows....I let up a while to sit back and listen, instead of keeping the modem busy all night long, every night. Now, that's what I'm doing (with a high speed connection,now, too!) on another site.

Folks, it's not the end of the world, and I'm just shocked that some supposed Kind people are reacting with such malevolence! Take a deep breath, let it out slow. Take a hit, put on a show and kick back. Every thing will be OK!

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

[removed by poster request- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 11:47:17

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

thanks for moderating my post. now it means nothing. you might as well delete my first post if youre going to screw with it like that.

no more am i going to support the grateful dead with my money. no cds, no dicks picks, no shirts, no posters, no nothing.
ill be searching for people who have the music.
not giving in to the corporation.

and whoever said this was right- 11/22/05 RIP The Grateful Dead

that music means so much to me. its changed my life.
and now its gone because they want to make money.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Done.

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

just the worst marketing move on there part possible.. my interest and purchase of any dicks picks or the 69 release was possible only my my re-interest brought on by this site.. so now i feel awful that i have no chance of getting a good sounding board, I just do not understand cause phil provides soundboards of his show..any way bad move on the part of the GD $$$ machine

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Poster: JerryInaPouch Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:37am
Forum: etree Subject: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

Hello, my name is Doug LoConti (son of Henry LoConti, owner of World Famous Cleveland Agora and Buckeye Lake/Legend Valley) I am the son of Henry, a very well-known promoter. I have looked into this, and this is the best information I have to date:

1.) This was most likely a band member's choice, although I am not positive.

2.) I have been in contact with the friendly people at GDstore.com, specifically a woman named Margret. She can be emailed at "customerservice@gdstore.com" - I have spoke with her in length about all of this, and she answers ALL emails sent to that email address.

I have been told that ALL emails sent to her are personally read and sent up the chain.

she can personally be reached, toll-free, at 800-CAL-DEAD (ask for Margret)

It would help if you said you got the information from "Doug LoConti" (that's me) aka Cleveland Agora. We are tryingt o help the fans, and as we have direct contact information to the management of Ratdog and Phil and Friends, I am *personally* trying to use my "power" (God I hate that word) to do what I can.

3.) Taking anger out towards archive.org is not only uncalled for, it's just plain stupid. They don't want to get sued out of business (and they would be if they openly defied this new "policy") so don't blame them. FURTHERMORE...

4.) If you DO call Margret, (please do, or at least email her- we can fight this in numbers,) BE POLITE! It isn't her fault, and although she cannot "publicly" comment her feelings, she IS a head and IS very saddened by this- just as we ALL ARE. Show "them" that "we" are not impolite burn-outs looking for a place to vent, but rather that we are INTELLIGENT and, more importantly, KIND- (kill `em with kindness!!) IMPOLITENESS and ANGER (ie profanity) will do NOTHING for our cause- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! so ...avoid it. Finally.....

5.) I am working closely with the people in the industry, and I can be reached directly at the Cleveland Agora's main business line (216) 881-2221 (ask for Douglas) or you can email my PERSONAL email account at REMOVESPAMdeadheadlooser@hotmail.com (obviously when you email me remove the "REMOVESPAM" part) and yes, it's "two" "o's" (ie lOOser) either way, I want to work with all of you and with the nice people (there are a few) that work at GD marketing...

if we make enough POLITE noise, we can make a change. So in summation, the contact info:

GD marketing:

800-CAL-DEAD (ask for Margret, tell `em Doug L. sent you,)
or email at (remove the "remove spam") REMOVESPAMcustomerservice@gdstore.com

or call me

216-881-2221 (cleveland agora, world famous)

or email me

Doug LoConti

(remove the "remove spam") REMOVESPAMdeadheadlooser@hotmail.com

OR you can even snail-mail me, at my house, (yes that's how dedicated I am)

Doug LoConti
6404 E. Pleasant Valley Rd
Independence, OH 44131

a note about donations: I don't NEED any, and if any are sent, make `em to cash cuz' I'm going to send it right back to archive.org......however, I simply suggest you send any donations directly to THEM. If any come my way, I WILL forward them to archive. REMEMBER- archive.org is on OUR side- don't PUNISH them for the mistakes of others. Together, with positive energy, we can WIN this. Jerry, we miss you, we love you, and wee need your positive vibes- wherever you are, and wherever the TRUE heads are, hear my call and do what you can. Thank you.

-Douglas LoConti c/o Cleveland Agora
6404 E Pleasant Valley Rd
Independence, OH 44131
USA
REMOVESPAMdeadheadlooser@hotmail.com

ps- we (the Agora and Buckeye Lake) have played the Dead many times. They are a wonderful band, and WE still have OUR shows on archive. I'm looking into the legal ramifications of releasing those on clevelandagora com, but until I get the OK, just keep it real and keep it positive- at very least, the shows they played at OUR venue will live on! Peace, love, and hippie hugs to ALL!!!!! :)

KINDly, -Doug

[subj edit for clarity- mod.]


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:37:04

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Poster: LolHaHa123451 Date: Jul 29, 2008 2:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

Just another greed-inspired move by a greed-inspired bunch of people. I don't care what they accomplished in the past, they're just another Metallica now.

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

Here's a copy of my note to GDM. I'm only posting this in the hopes that it will spur others to speak up *POLITELY* so that our voices will be heard by those who need to hear them.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Margaret,

Doug LoConti just posted a note on the Live Music Archive (LMA) saying that you were reading and forwarding messages regarding the recent removal of downloadable live Grateful Dead recordings from the LMA.

I am attaching a note with my feelings on this matter below. I would appreciate it if you could please bump it up to the powers that be so that our voices can be heard.

Thank you,

V.

***********************************************************

Message for GDM:

Well my feelings are is that the music is for the people: you know it's like, ah, I mean, after it leaves our instruments, it's of no value to us. You know what I mean? It's like, what good is it?, so it might as well be taped. My feeling is that if people enjoy taping it and enjoy having the tapes, that's real great.
--------J. Garcia 7/10/81

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing to voice my disappointment about the recent decision to remove Grateful Dead soundboard recordings from the Live Music Archive. While I fully recognize and respect the rights of the artists to do as they choose with their work, I feel this is a mistake on a number of levels. In many cases, I was willing to buy a product because I was able to hear what it sounded like before purchasing it. I have even purchased official versions of shows I already had acquired as free soundboards through the LMA because I had fallen in love with the music and felt an obligation to support the artists. Knowing that the Dead allowed so much free music to circulate in the world made me want to patronize them, and I never hesitated to buy tickets, music, or video releases. Now, I am forced to rethink my feelings.

I feel the organization is shooting itself in the foot by alienating its most loyal fan base, and throwing away a marketing tool that has surely brought in countless thousands of dollars to the Grateful Dead.

I hope that you will see that this is a mistake and rethink your position. At least allow us to download the audience recordings.

Finally, I hope GDM appreciates the magnitude of the PR disaster they now have on their hands (e.g., at least one online petition to completely boycott GDM products had nearly 2,000 signatures at the time I wrote this email). Nobody "on the inside" has made any effort to communicate the reasons for this decision to us, the fans, so consequently we must assume the worst. At this point, it will take nothing short of personal statement from the surviving band members to mollify us.

Sincerely,
Vince L.
Erstwhile loyal fan



This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:38:31

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Poster: Slim075 Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

Very well said:

ditto that for me


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:39:50

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Poster: MakUmShine Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

You spurred me on. Thanks. Here's what I sent:

Hi Margaret,

Thank you for taking the time to read my email. Please forward the following message, which I am going to try to write from the bottom of my aching heart, to the appropriate folks. Thanks for your kindness and efforts during this time of great sadness.

Amy

To GDM:

I am writing, as are many others, to express how your decision to pull all the Grateful Dead downloads from the Live Music Archive (LMA) has affected me. I am nearly 50 years old and have enjoyed the Dead for decades. I don’t personally know any tapers anymore. LMA was my Grateful Dead community of today where we gathered online and shared he music, and you have taken that away from us. Like a few thousand other fans who have signed the petition to boycott your products, I believe you have violated the spirit of the music and the whole Grateful Dead experience.

It saddens me to see, through this action of yours, that the essence of the Grateful Dead and our LMA community, where we could still gather and share the music, is now only a memory. The freedom, joy and excitement of circulating the music with the band’s blessing (as Jerry always gave it) was still alive until you killed it. Even if you don’t still believe in the spirit of the community, you could at least have chosen not to interfere. Yes, we can still do B&P, and we can still download from other websites until you decide to pull those too, but LMA was our COMMUNITY. It was our parking lot,;our gathering place to share the music, and remember and listen and love.

If all you care about anymore is business and you can’t be appealed to any other way, please at least see that you have made a bad business decision. Your base is now boycotting your company. It saddens and pains us, believe me, but why should we waste our care, concern and nostalgic feelings on you when you have none for us? I feel bad about it; after all, I’m boycotting the one thing I once believed in; the one thing that made sense when the rest of the world seemed crazy. But now it’s gone. It’s all business, sadly. My money will be going elsewhere.

It's all over now, Baby Blue. You called it quits last week.

Amy

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:41:21

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Poster: Slim075 Date: Nov 28, 2005 8:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

I just sent this letter to
"customerservice@gdstore.com"


Dear Grateful Dead,

I just wanted to write you a letter and let you know that your decision to no longer allow Grateful Dead recordings to be downloaded from LMA (www.archive.org) has deeply hurt your fan base. I can't speak for everyone, as I can only imagine you have heard from plenty of us. In my case you didn't loose a fan. You did however loose a customer.

The Grateful Dead is something special to me, something I hold closer to my heart then anything else. The music, the attitude, the community invokes a feeling in me like nothing else. Its hard for me to even think of words to describe it. Its who I am. The Grateful Dead and there band/fan relationship was always something that I held on high, especially watching Metalica and Napster and all of those guys hashing it out and fighting each other over something that we as a community and band dealt with YEARS AGO. The fact that the Dead were above all of that pettiness and never tried to gauge there fans, or abuse them made me SOOOO proud to be a Deadhead.

I work in a office and I listen and download shows all of the time, SBD and AUD recordings alike. Seriously I LOVE THIS BAND. And I feel like you have taken a large part of that away from me.

And to show you that I don't just download the free stuff, here is a list of things I have PURCHASED to support this band

I am a youngin in the Dead scene 26 years old, so I am not an old school guy who saw 200 shows- I saw 15 Grateful Dead shows, 5 "Other Ones" shows, SEVERAL Phil and Friends and "The Dead" shows also (around 13 combined).

I own Grateful Dead (on Vinyl) Europe 72, Mars Hotel, Wake of the Flood, Steal your face (on disc and vinyl), Dead Set, Without a Net, One and Two from the Vault, The Closing of Winterland (DVD and Disc), The Grateful Dead LIVE, American Beauty, Skeletons from the Closet, Reckoning, Hundred Year Hall, Doozin at the Knick, Nightfall of Diamonds, Ticket to Nassau, and I own 6 Dicks picks

I have 2 Grateful Dead inspired Tattoo's, a pair of Aiko Bear Slippers, a closet full of tie dies. a stuffed Jerry G Doll, 5 old school Grateful Dead Concert Posters. And HOURS and HOURS of cassettes from trading back in the day.

Needless to say I am not a fly by night fan. This is part of who I am. And one thing that I know for sure is that there are THOUSANDS more just like me, if not more hardcore then I am. I want you to know that you have really hurt US-- YOUR CORE by this decision and I will no longer support this band financially. I will no longer see "Phil and Friends" or "Rat Dog" or Mickey Hearts solo stuff. I will NO LONGER PURCHASE ANY GRATEFUL DEAD RECORDINGS NO MATTER HOW BAD I WANT THEM.

I love you guys, but you need to wake up and realize what you are doing to the people that care about you the most.


Thomas Laws
tlaws@waca.com

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

they replied thank goodness..they do care

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:40:12

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 5:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: what does "Official" mean here?

Just to clarify, this is an "official" announcement from Doug LoConti or "World Famous Cleveland Agora and Buckeye Lake/Legend Valley" business only. There is nothing "official" from the Grateful Dead in what you wrote. Am I correct?

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 13:38:17

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Poster: JerryInaPouch Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: what does 'Official' mean here?

Official means from the rock promoters that promote these bands, and many like it. I am "official" in the capacity that I help run two of the largest venues in the world.

No, I am not affiliated with the band and no, I am definately not affiliated w/ archive/ I am "official" because I am affiliated with the Cleveland rock scene and "official" because I represent one of the largest rock promoters in the world, (my dad).

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: what does 'Official' mean here?

Thanks, I fixed the ambiguity in the subject.

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Poster: JerryInaPouch Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: what does 'Official' mean here?

Here is a reply I got from my origional letter from Margret:

-----------

Doug,

I'm passing this along for you right now! It was great talking to you
earlier.

Thanks,
Margaret
Customer Service
www.GDstore.com
1.800.CAL.DEAD (1.800.225.3323)
*Please include all previous e-mail correspondence with your response.*


-----Original Message-----
From: Diego Lomein [mailto:deadheadlooser@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:13 PM
To: customerservice@gdstore.com
Subject: Attn. Margaret

Dear Grateful Dead merchandising, I am writing on behalf of the
Cleveland
Agora, Buckeye Lake Music Center (formally Legend Valley,) and a myriad
of
frusterated fans regarding the recent descisionb to remove the
soundboard
copies of the Grateful Dead live performances. I am writing this letter
to
hopefully come to an agreement as to a policy which will benefit the
members
of the Grateful Dead, (former and current,) and more importantly, to
benefit
the fans. I understand the descision to remove the soundboard copies
for
official show releases which may generate income, but to remove all the
copies of all shows seems to me to be a bit premature. As the son of
the
owner of the above mentioned venues, we have played the Grateful Dead,
Phil
and Friends, Ratdog, and other bands a plethora of times. As a fan and
a
promoter, I am saddened by this choice. I can offer several suggestions
as
to how to "profit" from the venture of releasing these shows in a
subscription format, and many other ideas. I would like to know who to
direct my commentary to, considering there is no "source" as to who made

this descision. I appreciate your time and I can be contacted directly
at
the numbers below. Thanks in advance for any and all consideration.
Remember, the fans have always supported the band, and seeing this as a
promoter first hand, I can assure the marketing directors that a
compramise
can be reached to satisfy the fans and to keep the motto and legendary
taping policy alive for all fans, former, current, and future. Please
contact me asap. Thanks in advance.

Douglas J LoConti, (son of Henry LoConti)
World Famous Cleveland Agora
(216) 881-2221
or at home
(216) 447-1612

6404 E. Pleasant Valley Rd
Independence, OH 44131
USA

Sincerely,
-Douglas



-------------

\as far as how official I am, the Agora is about to celebrate its 40th year of business.... we are the oldest rock venue in the country, and have played the dead countless times. No, I am not affiliated with the band or archive, but I have the power to get in contact with their management. That's about as official as I can get. :) Keep the positive vibes!!

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Poster: waller Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

doug ,

i just want to thank you for what i think is one of the best idea yet. we will not get any where raging and attacking the dead and especially the archive. we have to band together and try to solve this problem. im sure the bands by know are getting the trickle down, and i do think they need to make an official statment. the petiton thing is up to at www.petitionsonline.com I have supported the boys along time and when they pulled this out, i have to say i cant support them any more. i will remain deadicated to the music that started all of this and it has been a wonderful trip to say the least, but i will not give phil, bobby,mickey or bill any more money.

dead heads take action!!! unite and let other ones know how we feel

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:39:25

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re:ALL the information regarding this from an official rock promoter

Hey All,

This is for real. I got an almost immediate response from GDM:



Vince,


We truly do value your input on this situation. I will pass your comments on to the powers that be.



Thanks,

Margaret

Customer Service

www.GDstore.com

1.800.CAL.DEAD (1.800.225.3323)

*Please include all previous e-mail correspondence with your response.*




This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-28 15:40:29

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Poster: OBIEtree Date: Nov 23, 2005 9:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks to Brewster, Diana, Matt, Torbjorn and all the others that spent massive time and efforts getting the ability to have this project made public for the time it was.
we should be thankful for what we were able to get and the new people that got turned on to the hobby during the time it was available.
you have done more for the hobby than anyone and helped share quality recordings.

Latvala would have been proud.

OBIE

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Poster: GratefulPod Date: Nov 24, 2005 12:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Given the new "Offical Download Series," and what seems to be a new Dick's Pick every other week, we all knew this was coming. I think that we have all been blessed? spoiled? to have been able to do this for so long. Like most of you, I am I certainly pissed off this morining. (And definately a little sad). I'm sure its about the money.
For me , it was about the excitment of going through Getz and Dwork's great guides and pulling out a show to DL. I couldn't wait to burn the discs and listen to them. Sounds sentimental, does it? Just like most of these posts! We all need to get OVER IT, the age of Aquaris and Haight Asbury is over. When the anger subsides, I hope most of us remember THE MUSIC and what it means to us.
PS I hope that everybody @ GDP burns their turkey today!

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Poster: GratefulPod Date: Nov 24, 2005 12:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

How soon until DICK'S PICK 38: Cornell University, May 8, 1977?

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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: Nov 24, 2005 2:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I have a ticket to an upcoming phil and friends show, guess what? not going anymore. and i was really looking foward to it as this would be my first dead related concert in a few years. now i just cant be around that crap. I have also been meaning to buy one of the new box sets with the remastered studio albums. I have bought SEVERAL DVD's over the past 2-3 years. I WOULD buy some of the downloads but at the price of $30 you guys can forget about that ever happening. SO, with all the dicks picks, buying studio albums for the second, third times (remastered sacd stuff), $75 concert tickets, merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc.), DVD's (winterland, the grateful dead movie, vault series, etc. etc), WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM US!! DAMN!!! People spend more money on you than ANY other band. WTF!!!!

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Poster: sailinshoes Date: Nov 24, 2005 2:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I feel your pain, that's why I'm a Little Feat fan! I'll let you in on a little secret. Go to the Live Music Archive site (E-Tree) and click on the "Browse the bands", scroll down to Little Feat, click on 2004, and check out 7-12-2004. You will be AMAZED at what you hear!!!!

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Poster: CJFishFan Date: Nov 28, 2005 2:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

" i will definitely be burning the cornell show for everyone i can imagine.. im just glad that i got a hold of it before this happened.."

Likewise (on the second comment, that is). I downloaded this one on Monday the 21st -- just in time!!! As for burning it for everyone out there... maybe so. But, hey folks, at the risk of joining in this unbelievable rant - get a grip! Everyone just take a deep breath. A "step back" as it were :-)

I'm pretty sure that no one here has all the "inside info." Certainly it's ridiculous to be placing any blame at the feet of the LMA folks. As for GDP/GDM, who knows? Look, I'm as disappointed as everyone else, but let's not lose sight of the reason we all came here in the first place -- the music. There's still plenty out there that can be had for free if that's your preference, and much of what GDM is providing by way of DPs, etc. is simply superlative!! And by no means unreasonable in terms of pricing.

Let's at least wait for the dust to settle before attacking band members or others from the GD family. It's their perogative after all, and while we might disagree, let's all at least show some maturity. OK, rant over.

Thanks to all at the LMA (and the IA in general) for your fabulous work!!! I love this place! And my devotion to the Dead cannot be crushed so easily. Peace.

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Poster: Kemper Date: Nov 28, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I feel betrayed.... Read Requiem for the Dead by Cullen Sweeney.

http://cullensweeney.com/archives/2005/11/27/requiem-for-the-dead/

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Nov 24, 2005 1:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

i will definitely be burning the cornell show for everyone i can imagine.. im just glad that i got a hold of it before this happened..

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 24, 2005 12:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks Obie to you too and to all the people who worked together on the project! It's still stunning how y'all were able to bring it all together so well. :)

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Poster: moxley Date: Nov 24, 2005 12:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I have to say that I am very appreciative that the Archive exists and that I could download GD soundboards for as long as it lasted.

I do see a lot of people acting like babies on here. Yes, it totally sucks that the SBD are gone for now, but do you really know what happened and why? DO you know who asked for this and why? Do you know what the plan for the future is and if it is permanent? Probably not. I know I don’t. I have read the rumors as well, but who knows what is true.

One problem (in my opinion) is the suddenness and vagueness of the announcement. Removing something that means so much to so many people is obviously going to cause people to become upset - and when the information that is provided in it's place really doesn't clarify much people have a tendency to feel like they aren't being told the whole story - or like they are being given "corporate doublespeak" - where a decision that involves something of value or regarding revenue is being made behind the scenes and then is announced to the public with a euphemistic, vague announcement. Again, I am not saying that this is what happened - how would I know? I am saying that this is how it can come across to people, how they can feel.

I think people have also felt ( I know I have) that this archive, with the music and the political and education material and everything the archive is has just been a truly great thing. In this era of everything becoming corporatized dumbed down for the masses; in this era of creeping fascism (at least in the US/UK); in this era where our government lies and wants to control all information - either via laws or with the help of their corporate benefactors/patrons - the internet archive has seemed like a bastion of true freedom. So far it's been one of the things that I can point to and tell people "This is how it should be" - I think changes like this may make people afraid that the archive will change into just another website where instead of what’s best for the community (I.E. the world) and the material – decisions are made based more upon corporate/government will and money.

I love the archive, not just for the GD stuff, but for everything; for all it offers (and for free no less) and all it is. So in my opinion, (as far as the archive is concerned) more information would be nice = just straightforward ‘this is what happened, this is why – this is our plan for the future.’ I think that would calm people down…People need to realize that they aren’t necessarily owed something. People suggesting that others should ask for donations back are being shortsighted and childish (just my opinion as is all of this post)….The archive is important and is about a LOT more that the grateful dead.

And as far as the people who are bummed that the SBD are gone, I would offer the following insight: They were up for a long time. I am sure TONS of people downloaded a LOT of the shows. I know I got a whole bunch of them. With all of these shows in circulation it would be quite easy to set up a way to trade these shows – I can think if about 10 ways to do it online and there is always the good old fashioned mail trade.

Thanks for reading my post.

Moxley.

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Poster: robkell Date: Nov 24, 2005 1:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

well - the previous availibility of these grateful dead recordings on the internet archive was nothing less than spectacular - there is an obvious conflict between the commercial side (especially recent start-up of the download series at the gdstore) and the open format of readily available recordings hosted on the internet archive. i am not sure now the reason, in the first place, these shows were made availabile and why this reason had to be abandoned and the shows removed.

i was never a deadhead until the dick's picks series started and those releases really got me interested in the music and performances of the grateful dead - hey i'm 55 years old and for much of my life - always thought if you had workingman's dead, american beauty, live dead, skull and roses, plus live europe - what else was there to need - never got involved with the tape trading scene, etc. boy, was i ever wrong - and the dick's picks series releases no matter from what year - were always a pleasant surprise - so accidently coming across this site was great as i had purchased the taper's compendium volumes and used to read about the various shows - so this site for me was a godsend - i was in the leisurely process of downloading a nice cross section of the shows from here - i did not want everything - i did notice that many recordings i downloaded had flaws/minor nuisances such as poor quality audience patches, cut songs, problems with recording levels, etc. that would not make them suitable (or easily so) for commericial cd release or download - but were overall great - this is why i thought many of these shows albeit numerous had been made available on this site - (i.e. they had been marked off the list of commercially suitable recordings) - i hope some common ground is found as another poster wrote - that many of these recordings previously made available here can be again made available for a membership fee and nominal cost - to download with a good part of the proceeds going to help support the internet archive and the other part going to profit the grateful dead organization.

i was happy with (and still am) with the dick's picks series, releases from the vault, commericial downloads, and special sets - available for purchase - and have been a very steady customer at the gdstore - if their sales turned out to be seriously hurt (i.e. the download series) by people opting only to download from this site - then i am sorry that some tenable solution could not have been found before makng the decision to abruptly pull all the recordings. i hope some solution is found that allows a good-sized group of the shows to be restored and made available - maybe some for free/others for purchase under a membership scenario.

i would under no circumstances - purchase downloads of these shows from itunes or some other big company source (rhino or warner brothers). again, i would seriously consider participating in a program for a membership fee and nominal download cost - especially for shows that relate to, bookend, or are part of several nights stand that might go nicely with a dick's picks, vault release, or gdstore download.

if all is lost, i also am interested in sharing the recordings i was able to download (all lossless)and begin to participate in the trading community.

as someone said - you can never have enough grateful dead music - i think that's true.

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Poster: TST Date: Nov 30, 2005 2:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

A knife in the back...and more of the same...
When the Dead sued Irwin and took his guitars that Jerry had specifically left for him, it became apparent that greedy bad choices were being made. I was ashamed then but i am disgusted now. I dont think Jerry would be on here saying positive things about this hairbrained decision. You cant just rescend a 40 year philosophy and think for a second that we will suddenly start buying shows that were free to us from the start. Instead of making more money, they will make less. The dead have sent us underground, and for that i will BOYCOTT GRATEFUL DEAD PRODUCTIONS and any side projects i may have supported. I loved the Grateful Dead with all of my heart, but it is apparent that Jerry was the balance between good and greed. The switchman is sleeping!
TST

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Poster: Oh My Dearest Date: Nov 27, 2005 3:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I don't really understand the Dead's rationale here. Obviously, it's to protect their financial interests. Soundboards are considered to be their property and thus they can sell them to their fans under the guise of official releases "dicks picks" and such. Yet, this rationale doesn't mesh with the reality of tape trading as experienced by myself or Im sure many other deadheads. When I first got into the dead and started collecting as a teenager the shows I traded for were a mixture of soundboard and audience sources, of which the soundboards were the obviously more desirable. The key point is that I never really thought of that soundboard source recorded onto that Maxell tape as the property of the Grateful Dead. Maybe that was a mistake, maybe I should have. Rather, I always thought that the fact that I could obtain these concerts, with the level of sound quality so good, was one of the greatest aspects about the Grateful Dead. It really highlighted the pure joy of the music itself. You see the decision to remove the soundboards on the basis that they are the property of the Grateful Dead contradicts the experience of the common taper. These soundboards were never considered to be the property of the Grateful Dead, rather they were thought to be, for me and my friends, the meat and pototoes of what being a Deadhead was all about. I don't mean to naively suggest that that the Grateful Dead as a band company and family should not be able to profit from their labours, work and art. They absolutely do. But to suddenly pull all the soundboards off Internet Archive on the pretense that soundboards qualify as "private property" those who rendered this decision should realize that this was never the perception held amongst myself or the collectors I knew. Why does the Grateful Dead as it exists today have to gain by preventing someone from downloading a show like Barton Hall or any other show so widely circulated and revered. It wouldn't make sense that they're going to release it as an official release. So it just comes off as mean spirited. The Dead or whoever made this happen should realize that for those of us who love their music so much this kind of hurts. You cannot suddenly enforce the notion that soundboards are private property without any prior precdence. Why not just take off those shows that you're considering for official release. I know this would be challenging but it would still be a better compromise than this. The legacy of the Grateful Dead is not served well by this decision. I hope that some other arrangement is made.

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Poster: pgar Date: Nov 27, 2005 4:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

ditto.

I cannot think of anything to add, other than how sad I feel realizing the severity of this assinign decision.

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Poster: Spud8 Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Indeed it's a SAD day!

It's almost unbelievable! It's ridiculous!

This goes against everything the Grateful Dead ever represented. It's an act of cowards!

How could possibly the archive represent a threat to GD Merchandising??! It's non-commercial, man!

I'm going boycott as well. No more Dick's Picks for me! Not even a T-shirt! I promise I won't ever purchase anything from GD Merc as long as I live. They will never ever see a dime of mine anymore.

I'm sure Jerry is pissed off, wherever he is.

!!!SHAME!!!


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Poster: Spud8 Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Pardon my anger on last post.

Thank you so much Archive – it’s been great. !Hope!

08-09-1995 > RIP Jerome Garcia
11-22-2005 > RIP The Grateful Dead ?

!!!Please, somebody do sometinhg!!!

PHILLLLLLL… PHIIIILLLLLLLLLLL…

…………………………………….

This goes to GD Merc:

“I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
But I would slave to learn the way
to sink your Ship of Fools”

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Poster: samson Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Am I disappointed? Yes. I still remember the excitement from day one seeing 79 and 85 being the first years to show up. A year and a half later I still have the same excitement of being here to see (and hear) everything that followed. Despite the disappointment, I am forever grateful for what was given to us as everyone else should be! Brewster, Matt, GDIAP people whoever you are, we really appreciate what you guys have done for us.

I'll still sit here with my fingers crossed for shows to return but if they don't I'm still very happy for what I got.

As long as theres music here I will keep coming back with no hard feelings.
Peace and Thanks!!!

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Poster: pjb71 Date: Nov 29, 2005 3:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

i'd love to know the whole story.
it's too bad, because this beautiful music means so much more than some commercial endeavor.
but nothing lasts.
thank you charlie miller, jon aizen, and everyone else involved.
and thank you jerry!


This post was modified by pjb71 on 2005-11-29 23:32:01

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Poster: hex1848 Date: Nov 28, 2005 1:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

After reading a couple of the post’s here and being very disappointed with the decision, I have started up a Grateful Dead Community and Forum to help enthusiasts trade live music.

The site is up and running but needs lots of work. Expect UI changes and forum additions as I get time to work on things.

http://www.walstib.org


This post was modified by hex1848 on 2005-11-28 09:22:04

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Poster: doktorv Date: Nov 25, 2005 9:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Has anyone considered the possible involvement of www.musictoday.com? HQ in Charlottesville, VA; owned by the manager of the Dave Matthews Band; handles the Dead's merchandising (along with what seems like thousands of other bands).

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

OK people, the time to act is NOW... here is the address to write to:

(person's name)
GDP, Inc.
Box X.
Novato, CA 94948.

Write them and get your friends to do so also, snail mail people, it will make a bigger impact. If you have a local deadhead scene like we do in LA at the cubensis cover band shows get them all involved also. Ask friends to write, write the letter for them and have them sign it. I am not sure if the letter goes to phil or bob, or just the dead...
but I am sure either will be fine. Mention that you will boycott all future dicks picks, digital downloads, and other stuff until they change it. Complaining here is not going to be very helpful. Thanks to the achive staff and the uploaders but now we must get organized and get serious about this....

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thank you to everyone at the archive who made this experiment possible while it lasted.

We will get by...

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Poster: ascheylus Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dear Grateful Dead,

Instead of being a fanatical fan that has seen you coast to coast, I am now demanding to be recognized as a CUSTOMER who will not spend his money with your organization anymore until you allow Archive.org to post the soundboards for streaming and downloading.

Dear Archive.org- Why don't you tell us the real reason behind your decision? Why don't you post the letters from the lawyers, who at Grateful Dead strong-armed you into this? Why don't you speak the truth instead putting out craven statements about how "many will be upset and we will still keep the music for archival purposes." Why did you go down without a fight & then offer LIMP excuses? Tell the Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who is responsible in your organization???????????????????????

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 27, 2005 3:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Dude Chill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Poster: Brookeok Date: Nov 25, 2005 6:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Might as well go to GDlive.com for shns, until they pull the plug on that too.

I think this is an unfortunate turn of events.

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Poster: macker Date: Nov 28, 2005 4:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The Dead and Archive gave us an amazing gift and I hope that this is temporary pause, as the announcement alludes to. In the meantime, I'm tuning into Jerry Radio (www.jerryradio.com) for some more amazing FREE listening!

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Poster: chun Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

DELETE THEM

Remove their money grubbing music from this archive.

Seriously - now you're the internet radio station? What a crock. Delete it all - they are no longer worthy of being archived.

What a rip off to the people that wasted time uploading file after file after file.

I am done with paying for ANYTHING grateful dead related at all.

I will soon be offering to do HD trades of complete years for people looking to completed their collections. Screw GDP - and Deborah and her money grubbing lawers .....

Jerry is turning over in his grave.....

"when the show is over it's done with .... I don't care what you do with it....."

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Poster: liquidmike Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It's amazing how spoiled a community can get and how viscious a supposedly "kind" group of people can be once they no longer get their way. I can't believe the crap that people are posting here.

How... long do you think the Dead and their people are supposed to keep giving stuff away for free? Jesus, you've had free (with a little work) music for my entire lifetime (I'm 33) and an amazing bounty of stuff at that. The fact that this was available in a fine digital format, again, for free, for any amount of time is phenominal. I realize there are other bands on here giving out music. That's great. See if they continue to do that once they aren't touring and making an income for themselves and their families and organizations.

I hope that all these people who are claiming to stay away from GDM and this site do just that. You don't deserve to have access to any of it. Maybe when you go without for a while you'll realize how sweet you had it here (and other places) and rethink some of your hateful mindsets.

Maybe this doesn't affect me like some people since I rarely used the site to burn anything. I streamed most of it anyway. How much cooler can you get than a 24hr GD radio? If I don't get to hear every Dark Star I think I'll get by on the opportunity to purchase a new one every now and then.

Grow up, move on with life. Don't expect a disbanded group to continue to feed your jones for their stuff for free forever just because they began life as a house full of hippies. They still put out a boatload of music at more than reasonable prices (in comparison to about 95% of the music biz) and you can still find things from people online

Looking at this bunch of crybabies makes me not want to visit this site ever again (I will however because I like it) just to distance myself from their crap. Don't like to pay for music? Don't buy it. Think ticket prices are too high? (This is a source for another discussion all together) Don't go. Make more room for me in the good seats in the smaller, more intimate venues. I have no problem paying $45 to see Phil and his band in a 4500 seat theater and I have no problem laying down $25 for a 3 or 4 disc set of live music.

Big thanks to the people that run this place and others like it. I knew the internet was a cool thing but sometimes you really get surprised by what you can find. Even if you can't find a SBD from somebody anymore.

[language moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 19:41:43

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Poster: mops&brooms Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Amen Brother! I'm bummed because after telling myself I'm going to do it for month's, I tried to download some of the studio rehearsals this morning - a day too late! Damn those were fun to listen to. I had my eyes on some other shows as well but you snooze you lose.
Enough complaining from all the community's victims and want-something-for-nothings. Get over it! Think of something you can be "grateful" for and if you have trouble doing that then take a trip to New Orleans.

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Poster: krawz Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It amazes me that some people can get to a place where they believe that what is essentially private property can somehow belong to them.

You people out there that have convinced yourselves that you own the music need to get real. You did not create this art, and no one forced you to buy tickets or buy the music. Don't give me the Jerry line either. His context related to tapers.

The Dead owe us nothing and we all should be grateful that someone allowed us the gift of having what we had for any time at all; not to mention providing the basis for any kind "community" that may exist.

We paid for concerts and we paid for recordings. Some of us were luck enough to get bootlegs, and very few of us were privileged enough to get SBDs until the Grateful Dead allowed the SBDs to become available.

All you ungrateful people are going to accomplish by your tone is the ultimate demise of any free SBDs on the web.

I just hope that GDM and the people at the Archive realize that most heads out here are grateful, but are the silent majority. Try not to get too rattled by the few boisterous ingrates.

Thanks for everything from an 45 year old head.

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Liquidmike you missed the point. We're not asking to be given anything except to continue ciruclating amongst ourselves music already in our possession using available technologies.

If we're greedy to want the music the same can be said about the GD organization for wanting more of our money.

This goes both ways.

It's about loyalty and trust and as far as I, and apparently many here, are concerned, GDP has violated both.

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Poster: anddave Date: Nov 25, 2005 7:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

except to continue ciruclating amongst ourselves music already in our possession using available technologies

yes...available technologies...like email, B&P, telephone...meeting folks at fests...

:) anddave

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Poster: bop9 Date: Nov 23, 2005 5:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

amen.

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:19pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

your just plain mean

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Poster: wildturkey2oo0 Date: Nov 23, 2005 12:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I discovered the GD very late in my life and i really was amazed that such a lot of their music was freely available on e-tree - what a privilege to enjoy and to use, the shows belonged to all of us through the generosity of the band.I was disapointed to see that the sbd's had been removed by the members of the GD - however just to put things into perspective - a privilege does not constitute a right to their music.Who knows what the motivation behind this decision was?
Their music lives on and this is what counts - not if it is available for free. I will gladly pay for the reissues of their music in HDCD,Remasters and the Dick's Picks line - i feel every cent is well spent on me, i rather give up on a daily starbucks fix than to deprive myself off their music.
Also there is such a great amount of fantastic music ( again Free - thank all of you!)in the archive to help with the loss of the sbd's. Peace and all the best to everybody out there! Keep truckin' on!

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Poster: captain_trip_420 Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Oh yea, BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM

BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM

Looks like they made a stupid move...

Thank you and good night

[moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 05:11:28

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Poster: searchinbig Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Man - what a sad day.

Everything Jerry stood for.

By the way have Doug's guitars been returned or are they also wrapped up in some mumbo jumbo lawsuit.

How about corporate America?

What a joke.

Boycott is right - never another purchase from GDM.

What is the official stance?

Does anyone know?

I guess I'll still be SEARCHINBIG

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Poster: jbphburg Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Is there any official explanation for this anyway? Who made the decision? Absolutely heartbreaking to go to what's left of the shows and not be able to download. Amazing, very sad.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707

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Poster: rfs Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

There is a peitiion out there. check it out

www.petitiononline.com

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Poster: Robert_NC Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Might as well delete it all - the streams don't work anyway - I tried 4 or 5, none of them worked.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

As you might appreciate, the site is no doubt under a heavy load tonight with all the changes.

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Poster: Robert_NC Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

403 is a security configuration error, not a server load error.

On a different note, not to be critical of LMA, because I assume LMA is not responsible, but I think everyone who submitted audience tapes should ask that they be removed completely.

The SBDs have always presumably been the property of The Grateful Dead.

The audience tapes were made under the policy that tapers were allowed to make, reproduce and distribute them FREELY. So the tapes are really the property of the original tapers and are to be traded FREELY as long as no money exchanges hands.

The streaming format basically violates this policy by preventing the free TRADE of the audio content of the original tapes. Tapers Unite!

This post was modified by Robert_NC on 2005-11-22 19:30:20

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I think everyone who submitted audience tapes should ask that they be removed completely....

The streaming format basically violates this policy by preventing the free TRADE of the audio content of the original tapes....


First, would it be a positive act for a taper to take away what does remain for the patrons here, in the heat of emotion? I'd hope any Dead audio taper has the years of maturity to look at this from the larger perspective of fan enjoyment.

Second, there are many trading-oriented sites across the net, but IA is not actually one of them. It's an online public library. Any band's policy with respect to the Internet Archive may differ a lot from their policy with respect to trading. Current example: Dave Matthews Band. Example: Phish. Example: Galactic. This is another one of those cases.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 06:22:12

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Poster: markpj Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: bad marketing move from GD

bad move on the marketing end from grateful dead..only since i found this website have i been buying music from GD.. the memory was brought back to life from this site..sorry to all who will lose the chance to download there first show!

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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: bad marketing move from GD

Thats one of the first thoughts I had as well. I've been a dead-head forever and I just discovered this archive a couple weeks ago. I got all excited, asked a couple dozen internet friends "Are you into the Grateful Dead?" and they all said "no, not really". I asked "have you listened to much Dead?" and again, "no, not really". So I passed them a link to the classic performance of "Eyes Of The World" (3-29-1990) and said "here, listen to this". Every one of them (without exception) was totally blown away and every one of them asked whether that was really Grateful Dead. They all wanted more, so I said "ok, I'll compile a handful of links to some nice sample performances". I had just barely compiled a quick list and sent it along to a few of them yesterday. Within an hour they were telling me the links didn't work. Well, I guess we know why the links didn't work.

There's a new generation of potential dead-heads out there and they have internet access. The loss of this archive is a very bad business decision. If I were holding stock in this "company" I'd be selling as soon and the market opens today. (Yeah, I know, the Grateful Dead isn't a publicly traded company)

Many thanks and kudos to Brewster, Matt Vernon and any other players in the construction of this archive. I only wish I had found it sooner.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: website very slow

If you are getting a 403, please give us the URL.

We have having website troubles today as you all have noticed. We are not sure what the problem is, but it could be related to the Grateful Dead changes. We are working hard to put it together with folks that are on vacation and all.

Thank you for the patience.

-brewster

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: website very slow

We believe we have the website at full speed again. (it seems it was fixed by optimizing and maybe uncorrupting an sql table).

Please let us know if there are continued problems.

-brewster

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Nov 22, 2005 1:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: can I see some hits graphs?

Is there public data on website hits / unique hits that www.archive.org or it's subdivisions receive? (i.e. www.archive.org/audio) ?

I'm curious because we have public charts for users added per day, number of recordings added per day / month, all that .. I was just curious with today's (i'm sure) flood of GD related hits .. i'm just a number junkie. can I see some bandwidth / hit graphs?

This post was modified by Tyler on 2005-11-22 21:16:45

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Poster: Hatta Date: Nov 23, 2005 1:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: website very slow

"We believe we have the website at full speed again. (it seems it was fixed by optimizing and maybe uncorrupting an sql table)."

You're so forthcoming when it comes to technical problems with the site. Why can't you be so forthcoming when it comes to political problems? Are you afraid of getting sued?

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Poster: whitelacestrange Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

damn..... i knew this day would come, i just never really thought about it. i only recently was showed this site and since im only 16 and therefore missed out on all the magic, i relied on this site, and all my dads bootlegs. i am thankful for the shows that i did manage to download, thank you so much archive.org, you have done more for us than you guys can imagine. its a shame deadheads have to be caught up in all this coorprate bull, it would be alot better if the dead were still on our side.
jerry is surely feeling our pain.

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Poster: Dodson Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Ouch! I have done almost nothing but listen to streaming audio up till now. I downloaded a few MP3s. I just upgraded my computer with the goal of building a pristine copy of 9/20/70. I have bought dozens of the records and CDs. And a dozen or so concert tickets. More if you count JGB and Robert Hunter shows. I started listening in 1973. Saw my first shows in 1974. I just sent $300 to GD merchandise for books and CDs. I would really like to get the show. Finding this site had sort of rekindled my interest. I understand pulling shows they are selling, but why the rest? I am glad to support the band and all, but why take the music away?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 22, 2005 12:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

If you are having trouble with the streams, please give us details. info@archive.org is a good address for details.

We have done what we can to keep as much access as possible.

Please help us debug our website.

-brewster

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Poster: CharlesD Date: Nov 22, 2005 11:13am
Forum: etree Subject: What a bummer!

I've been a Deadhead for twenty years. I used to do some tape trading back in the day (still have about 50 shows). Recently I got an iPod & of course put my Dick's picks on it. Found this site YESTERDAY and was looking forward to building a nice collections of shows, listening to some of them today really brought back some great memories for me & I was looking forward to getting all the shows I went to & many others.

Oh well at least I got the 6 shows I pulled down last night. But it's really sad to see this fantastic resource snatched away from the world. I can't think why anyone who values what the Grateful Dead accomplished in their career would do this to the fans.

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Poster: RJ Hythloday Date: Nov 24, 2005 9:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I am grateful to have once had such a huge source as the lma for gd recordings, but now were bringing it back to the community where it belongs among the traders, tapers, and fans

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Poster: Lazlo Toth Date: Nov 26, 2005 6:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Darn. Kind of depressing....I'm an intellectual property lawyer and have always understood they could yank anything they made available...but just because you CAN yank something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

It's their music and it belongs to them to use it as they see fit. So I have trouble complaining. But it was ALWAYS magical to see the GD folks shun the money in a world where the MPAA sues everyone in sight, Sony gets sued because it puts DRM materials on hard drives without telling people. etc. My 10-year-old had just graduated from some of the stuff that gets marketed to him and I'd been using the Dead as an example of people who approached intellectual property completely differently and still did well. I guess that the temptation to do what's been done here is another lesson that I'll have to teach him now that I've learned it too.

I don't begrudge people making a living, or even lots of money, and if that's what the Dead wants to do it's their right. But as they do this, they've destroyed something magical and magic isn't easy to find. So I suspect that as I go along listening to the downloads I already have, my listening will be tinged with a sadness that the magic was destroyed - albeit legally - and over time my enjoyment of the music will probably be tainted as well. So I'll end up finding other bands that I've never heard of and will discover things I didn't know about from those bands.

As one comment said earlier, now GD is "just another corporate logo." Oh well.

I cannot begin to thank this site for making the music available and I will return again and again and again for music by new artists that I would never otherwise encounter.

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Poster: Diggity Dank Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

What of waiver? Any argument that the Dead have waived any enforceable copyright on the material as a result of having it freely available in the public domain? My understanding of IP law was that the copyright holder must take steps to protect its copyright; here, there was free access to the material, available to all, with the express approval of the GD? I'm not saying that the gd have no moral right to ask archive to remove the material. I am questioning whether they have lost their legal right to protect their recordings as a result of their own actions.

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 26, 2005 10:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The Dead had been turning into "just another corporate logo" for a long time now. I mean Jerry had his own line of neckties for god's sake (just like Rush Limbaugh). The whole deadhead/hippy movement had also been branded and co-opted for years as well. They slap the logo on everything now anyway from golf tees to whatever else you can think of. It sucks that they are having financial problems but I don't know maybe it's time to move on, let's face it, it is probably only a matter of time before some Dead song turns up in a commercial. Phil, Bobby et. al. have been veering close to becoming nostalgia acts for quite awhile now (sort of like a cooler version of what the Beach Boys became). Both Ratdog and Phil and Friends are essentially Dead cover bands and even the actual band themselves began to resemble a cover band in their waning years. They wrote and performed some great music but they weren't exactly creative juggernaughts, they would occasionally play a new (mediocre) tune and then go back to playing the same old stuff that everyone paid to hear and that they had been playing for the last two decades. In the twilight of their career everyone wet themselves because ooooooh they played "Unbroken Chain", that song is almost 25 years old if not older! There are other bands out there, some are even, (gulp!) more exciting than the Dead. They were a great band, but that's what they were, a band. IMHO people need to quit treating them as sacred objects of veneration and stop looking at this whole thing as some broken covenant between God (The Dead) and his children (Deadheads). We're all suckers on some level or another anyway as we have been paying money for the same songs over and over and I suspect alot of other people feel this way which is why they would rather download for free than pay for a CD. I had alot of Dicks Picks myself and stopped buying them when I noticed basically the same songs on most of them and decided that I would rather spend money on something new instead of paying good money for the same material played in a different year or venue. These were great songs but hell, how many versions of Jack Straw does one really need to hear or posses in one's life time? This greed on the band's part that certain individuals write about cuts both ways. There are people on these boards that have downloaded 100's of shows more than they could possibly listen to. Seeking more than you can use or need, basically "coveting" if you will, is essentially greed in itself. Think about it. Look around on this site (which is still great) and others and you may discover music that was made in this decade that is just as good if not better. PS: before I get accused of this, I do GET the Dead.

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 05:39:05

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 05:55:12

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:01:55

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:19:06

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:21:55

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:28:33

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:50:23

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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: Nov 26, 2005 10:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Good post, lot's of good points. I really don't understand the obsession with downloading thousands of shows, I downloaded about 30 from here (normally the highest rated show from each year), and combined with what I already had, I have several hundred hours of GD music. The aggression of the allegedly deprived fair weather Deadheads is an example of what went south with the crowds towards the end of the trip. The last time I saw them was in 94; let me tell you, it was a long way from Winterland, I didn't think the band had changed too much, but the crowd was really strange compared to the old days. I’ll go out on a limb here and suggest that the people sniveling about the GD are not Winterland ultraviolet survivors.

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks for replying. I was living in Noblesville during the whole Deer Creek/gate crashing mess and there seemed to be an underlying sentiment that the people who crashed that fence were somehow entitled to because of there "devotion" to the band and if you listen to the tape you can hear the gate crashers being cheered on by the "fans" at the show. By that same sentiment, people seem to believe that since they are so devoted to the band that they are entitled to grab as much free music as they want.

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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I really wonder where the outrage was when Jerry kept getting forced out on the road when he was obviously sick. Although GD inc. are capitalists, the beast was fed by the crowd.

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I always wondered about that myself. Ultimatly what turned me off to the whole scene (not the music mind you, I still think it's great) Was this competition that I found was sort of inherent in alot of circles. Everyone was always trying to outdo each other in terms of shows seen and collected. This even exenteded to the clothes they wore and the vehicles they drove (just HAVE to have that VW bus!). Also it seems like the scene around the parking lot had sort of degenerated as well. In Noblesville there was usually a big bruha when the Dead came because of all the business Tourheads and what not brought to the local businesses. From the point of view of the actual parking lot scene it began to look more and more like an influx of people who either didn't care about the band and liked the partying or people who liked the band withen the context of said partying. My point is that I began to see the whole scene as less and less a celebration of music and empathy with the love of the band as the glue that brought all these people together and more like a travelling carnival or mardi gras where the music was sort of in the backgound and the partying and the "lifestyle" was at the forefront. So while I love and continue to love the Dead's music I'm kind of leery of the "scene".

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 07:48:11

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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

True, I have said this many times before, that the people changed not the band, and also the weird competition thing about how many times someone saw them in concert. Possibly the same weirdness is at play here, with people who have downloaded 800 shows and are now pissed off because they can't download more, I'm not sure what you do with that many shows even if you listen to them constantly, possibly the goal was to download every show for some reason like to tell everyone what a great DH you were because you went to a thousand shows and you had two thousand downloaded. the whole thing reeks of negative energy perpetuated by some bizarre adolescent one-up-man ship idea. the fact of the matter is, that if you like the Dead: Shut up and listen to them, if you don't like them or think the have turned into capitalistic swine, just shut up.

This post was modified by Flakey Foont on 2005-11-27 10:30:09

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I think what alot of this comes down to is a matter of delayed gratification. In the "send blanks and postage" days you would have to wait days sometimes weeks, and you had to put time and effort into the whole endeavor (at least I did). I think what people are really pissed about is that you can no longer just tap a key and in a matter of minutes have a new show. Not to mention that we were getting this stuff free of charge for awhile now and were spoiled by it.

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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: Nov 27, 2005 4:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I agree with both of the heads in this thread. I'm still interested in getting unique, quality recordings of the Dead. I'm not interested in pissing and moaning anymore.

If you're off the bus, get off. Its comes back around. You can get on again when you've burned of all of your negativity.

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Poster: Steve Taton Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

This whole thing reminds me of Watkins Glen in '73. Before there were really great rigs at shows, someone had a mic on a pole with a reel to reel. The Dead's people actually came out and cut his cable so he couldn't tape. I used to have a copy of this show from this taper where you can hear them yelling at the taper to stop.

Later, they changed their policy and became the darlings of the taper crowd. I always thought that is part of what made them so wildly popular for so long. AFAIC, the tapers are who kept the vibe going. Basically, tapers were producing and distributing promo materials for the Dead. And it didn't cost them a cent.

Now, it would appear to me that whoever was responsible for the old policy in the first place has been given a position of eleveated importance, or at least his opinion counts more now. And that is really, really sad.

I know that we aren't really entitled to anything, but it would be nice to see the loyalty that tapers and Deadheads have shown for so long, while putting millions of dollars in their coffers, be acknowleged and given back. Until recently, that loyalty did mean something. Now, apparently, it doesn't.

I see this as the end of an era. Some will say the era ended when Jerry died, some will even say it ended in '70, and all points in between, but I see it as now.

GDP may see this move as sound business, but they are violating an old business tenet: don't give anyone anything that you aren't prepared to give everyone forever. When you take away something that you have been giving for a long time, you are going to piss people off. That, for better or worse, is human nature. Now, they have pissed off many of their greatest fans.

I would guess that a few of you are like me. You already have most of the shows you really want, whether it is 100 hours or 2,000 hours. You have probably been trading for awhile, and you buy Dick's Picks and Vault releases out of loyalty and because of the artwork, packaging, and the knowlege that the sound will be just a little bit better than the copies that are out there. You know that the price is a little steep compared to what you can get trading, but you also know that the info is cut into the discs and will last until you break or mar the disc. Also, they do tend to find shows that aren't in the food chain yet.

Now, the loyalty factor is gone. The band that had you in the palm of their hands forever because they were so user-friendly is now just another band competing for your hard-earned money. Now, the colors on the covers look just a little faded. The yes/no meter on purchases suddenly doesn't go into the yes mode when deciding whether or not to pull the credit card out. The unpteenth version of whatever song you really wanted to hear another version of suddenly doesn't seem worth $8 a disc anymore.

You can go to the downloads section of the store, but, like Dick's Picks, some shows are incomplete or have filler "bonus" material on them, thus creating an extra disc to pay for, and the price for the .flac versions isn't much less than what you are paying for the DP and Vault shows.

As for the Dead's "financial problems," you may find it hard to believe that the organization that you have been faithfully pumping money into for so long could have financial problems so bad that they would find it necessary to pull the plug on soundboards. You wonder where all those millions of dollars have gone, and why they need more. You may wonder why they are now turning their backs on the people and the policies that made them so rich in the first place. And you may just put that wallet back into your pocket without pulling the credit card out. And that is sad.

If GDP really needs the money that bad, why don't they just approach Live Music Archive with a novel idea. Why don't they keep the soundboards up and charge a nominal fee ($2 a disc plus a little for LMA would be fair for everyone) to download them. That way, everybody would win. We would get downloads without having to pay record store prices, GDP would get a lot more money than they will at the prices they want to charge without having to lift a finger, and LMA gets some money for being the GD's agent.

I think a situation where everybody wins is in the spirit of what the Dead used to be about. I guess the obvious question is: is win-win what the Dead are still about, or are they just another competitor for your hard-earned money?

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Poster: JerryInaPouch Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:51am
Forum: etree Subject: regarding my authenticity

"official"? I am not associated with the band or etree, BUT I am the son of the longest-lasting promoter in history, (the Cleveland Agora is about to celebrate its 40th) so we've played the dead and the ilk many times. This is a reply from margret, a letter that I sent her:

--------------


Doug,

I'm passing this along for you right now! It was great talking to you
earlier.

Thanks,
Margaret
Customer Service
www.GDstore.com
1.800.CAL.DEAD (1.800.225.3323)
*Please include all previous e-mail correspondence with your response.*


-----Original Message-----
From: Diego Lomein [mailto:deadheadlooser@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:13 PM
To: customerservice@gdstore.com
Subject: Attn. Margaret

Dear Grateful Dead merchandising, I am writing on behalf of the
Cleveland
Agora, Buckeye Lake Music Center (formally Legend Valley,) and a myriad
of
frusterated fans regarding the recent descisionb to remove the
soundboard
copies of the Grateful Dead live performances. I am writing this letter
to
hopefully come to an agreement as to a policy which will benefit the
members
of the Grateful Dead, (former and current,) and more importantly, to
benefit
the fans. I understand the descision to remove the soundboard copies
for
official show releases which may generate income, but to remove all the
copies of all shows seems to me to be a bit premature. As the son of
the
owner of the above mentioned venues, we have played the Grateful Dead,
Phil
and Friends, Ratdog, and other bands a plethora of times. As a fan and
a
promoter, I am saddened by this choice. I can offer several suggestions
as
to how to "profit" from the venture of releasing these shows in a
subscription format, and many other ideas. I would like to know who to
direct my commentary to, considering there is no "source" as to who made

this descision. I appreciate your time and I can be contacted directly
at
the numbers below. Thanks in advance for any and all consideration.
Remember, the fans have always supported the band, and seeing this as a
promoter first hand, I can assure the marketing directors that a
compramise
can be reached to satisfy the fans and to keep the motto and legendary
taping policy alive for all fans, former, current, and future. Please
contact me asap. Thanks in advance.

Douglas J LoConti, (son of Henry LoConti)
World Famous Cleveland Agora
(216) 881-2221
or at home
(216) 447-1612

6404 E. Pleasant Valley Rd
Independence, OH 44131
USA

Sincerely,
-Douglas
------------------


any other questions, fire away. :) Thanks for being "kind" about this whole thing...

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Poster: ggddttrrffbb Date: Nov 28, 2005 5:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hey all - sign the petition!

Justin

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The news has now been worked into the FAQ:
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#215

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Poster: Little Nemo Date: Nov 27, 2005 9:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

HEADS UP GUYS:
Here is an email you can send your views to: IPDiv@deadnet.com , this is the "Intellectual Property Division" of GDP. Please remember that aggressive language ensures the recipient will discount what you have to say.

In my view, the key points to stress are: GD fans are loyal, and free access to shows has *never* discouraged us from purchasing all commercial releases; and the Dead's massive fanbase exists *because of*, not in spite of, years of free access to shows through trading. Many people on this thread have noted that because of Archive, their commercial purchases actually INCREASED. Myself included.

Finally, people have asked about how we can return to grassroots sharing again. The answer is etree. It is a tape traders database. here is the Dead page:
http://db.etree.org/bs_d.php?artist_key=2
So, HOW DO YOU RESIST? by getting your trading list up there ASAP, and massively increasing the number of shows traded there. If we all do it, it will be nearly the same size as archive was. This also sends a message to GDP that we will get our free shows, come hell or high water, and Archive only made it easier, but there is no point to pulling the shows off archive.

Finally, to GDP: what, you're really gonna release all 3,000 shows within the next few years? C'mon. (I'm also mailing them direct.)

good luck all, grassroots organization has always brought down the corporate behemoth sooner or later. And remember you guys who feel all betrayed by the remaining band members, that they are not the Grateful Dead. The Dead is a spirit, a power, an energy, a force that sometimes was channelled through those band members. They are just people. they can screw up. but the SPIRIT of the Dead is not dead (heh), and NEVER WILL BE.

shine on,
Little Nemo

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Poster: jimkrum Date: Nov 28, 2005 3:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

in the past I have sent out requests for shows through etree and further and got nowhere. I begged and pleaded and asked politely and got nowhere. I groveled for days at a time and nobody answered. people are wierd, man. I would gladly share my stuff with anybody out there but going through dbetree didn't help me a bit.

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Poster: Slim075 Date: Nov 28, 2005 4:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

No kidding, you get labelled as a groveler, and no one wants to deal. or you get in a situation where someone has something and you have nothing they want in return and they
"don't do B & P's brah"

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Poster: Little Nemo Date: Nov 28, 2005 9:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Yeah, so the people that HAVE used etree in the past might suck, but that doesn't prevent us from using its infrastructure. If all LMA-ers get on there, and DO respond to each other, amongst us I'm sure we have the entire archive!!!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: concert recording trading at db.etree.org

You know, we have your "Your Trading Family" and "Trading Tribe" features over there nowadays thanks to Tom (the man!).

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Poster: MakUmShine Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

When will we be able to see the star ratings and reviews for ALL GD shows again? The LMA FAQ statement says: "The metadata and reviews for all shows and recordings will remain available." I miss it; it's information from other heads that helps me decide what trades to line up. I miss it all. Without a warning, you stole my heart.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The full plan in the top of this thread is not implemeneted yet. It will take some time to do all the changes- plus it is *still* a holiday weekend.

Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity in the FAQ- wording is now tweaked.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-27 16:57:10

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Poster: MakUmShine Date: Nov 27, 2005 9:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Thanks for explaining. I know it must be a big job. I just wanted to get the point across that it is the whole thing that I miss - reading serious, funny, nostalgic, thoughtful reviews, sharing memories of shows people attended, hearing different takes on the show qual and sound qual; then selecting and downloading those *choice* shining gemstone gifts and "opening them up" in my car so that they take me to that joyous, pleasant, sweet dimension. It's all worked so well partly because archive has been so open and friendly and smartly organized and partly because deadheads are generally wonderful.

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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: Nov 27, 2005 8:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

isnt there a happy medium here that can be found? a way that their recordings can continue to be free and still add to their gigantic wallets?

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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

i really feel like someone has died. i ahve that feeling- that really depressed desperate feeling. where you know its all gone. its over. but you dont want to believe it. you think about the day before- where it was all still there. youknow a few days ago i was saying- im going to go and download that great 72 show that id been streaming. now that opportunity is gone, and all of the great music that i had been looking forward to downloading and listening to and enjoying, is now gone. all that meant so much to me, and that changed my life, is now gone. and now i can no longer support the band that i love so much. only because of a greedy decision that was made. they are burying themselves and i really feel bad for them. they do not know the hole they are putting themselves in. i will live on with what i ahve of theirs and be happy with it. but i can't give anymore of my money or support.

Dark star crashes
pouring its light
into ashes

Reason tatters
the forces tear loose
from the axis

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Poster: sebbag Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

forgive them for they
know not what they've done

these are sad days. let us find a way to bring it back on the net.
I have no intention of spending dirty money on a successful group like the dead. the ideology of giving these shows for free and, at the same time, keeping good shows for label releases was pure and honest. That was what made them so unique.(except the music...of caurse)
on FESTIVAL EXPRESS(1970) , by the way, we have the same situation when they charge money for what deadheads understood as free events. the WRITING was on the Wall
any way good friends one thing I know if PIG PEN was alive
NON of this would have happen...
shalom

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Poster: ascheylus Date: Nov 27, 2005 2:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I don't care if the streaming works or not, or if Archive.org's music archive works at all. SHAME ON THE GRATEFUL DEAD. The Dead are truly dead.

There are lots of great sites with plenty of shn soundboards available. We shall overcome. Overgrow the Internet.

Put Grateful Dead Merchandising out of business and let Archive.org rot.

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Poster: Honest Injun Date: Nov 28, 2005 7:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Can you answer? Yes I can,
but what would be the answer to the answer man?

There’s something in the legal world called “Contempt prior to investigation”. Before we boycott Grateful Dead Merchandising we need to know the answers to some important questions. If anyone knows anyone in the organization, please pass them along and let them know we need answers!

Who is behind removing the shows from Live Music Archive?
What is Grateful Dead Merchandising’s official statement about the removal of shows?
Who is making the statement?
What are the long-term plans regarding Grateful Dead music availability on Live Music Archive?
Who profits from Grateful Dead Merchandising?
Do they deserve to profit from selling the music of the Grateful Dead?
Will boycotting GDM get the shows put back up or cause more harm than good?

Why don't we just give Alabama
rope enough to hang himself?
Ain't no call to worry the jury
His kind takes care of itself

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Poster: hipschoolpreppy Date: Nov 26, 2005 11:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

yo go to NUGS.net for a little extra dead with AMAZING quality, but stay here for all that other grate shiznuis

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Poster: HLS Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

To the archive--many many thanks.

One must admit, that the most likely story here is that the Dead pulled the plug on the SBDs.

This action demonstrates a very great lack of generosity on their part, as well as fundamental marketing miscalculation--tape traders don't buy that many Dick's Picks or Dead downloads--they hunt down SBDs, and they will continue to do so.

Can't say I am really surprised though--too good to be true.



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Poster: gyrograph Date: Nov 22, 2005 1:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: thanks brewster...

hey brewster:

What a beautiful showing on your part. The archive is an amazing thing. I will miss the more "complete" Dead show service, but I really must say it has been a great effort -- outstanding, really.

The people at GDP and Garcia Estate need to undestand this: The Live Music Archive has driven me to look around in record stores, and purchase more Dead-related discs than I have in years. If the monetary value of the recordings has increased, one can say that the Archive deserves healthy credit for the upswing.

Otherwise, i will always stop by the Archive -- the video stuff is growing and can be as compelling as the audio.

I hope the Archive surges forward... I ask the taper-friendly bands of the world to NOT let this have a chilling effect on the digital distribution of their music. Relatively free distribution of Grateful Dead recordings may be the Dead's most intelligent commercial decision ever (to paraphrase Mr. Lesh).

Thanks again!

-- Gyro

PS: Thanks Diana and Brad, as well.

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Poster: The Bopper Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

What a sad day. But it would have been foolish to think this wasn't going to happen at some point. I started downloading all my favorite '82's not to long ago fearing this day was coming.

But no need for everyone to freak out and start bashing various members and family members of the Dead. Contact GDP or someone over at dead.net if you want to complain. I'm surprised at the immediate thrashing that's occured on this thread alone. I'm sure all these great shows will start popping up elsewhere, maybe not as a full package but they will be available as single shows more then ever through torrents.

If you are familiar with trading music on the internet, this sort of thing has happened before and will happen again. Anyone remember TOL, Easytree.org or it's predecessors? Sure this is a convienient site but hopefully people downloaded all the good soundbounds for the near two years they existed here and they will be available elsewhere. The fact that all those great recordings were available in one place was a blessing.

Hello Bittorrent. See you at Etree.

Thank you Brewster and Archive staff for all your hard work.


This post was modified by The Bopper on 2005-11-22 18:39:11

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Poster: captain_trip_420 Date: Nov 22, 2005 9:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

"A taste of honey is worse than none at all"

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Here ya go Koons....here's your F'in MONEY...
"She wants Money, What she want, She wants Money"
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

What happend to "WHAT WOULD JERRY DO?"

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Poster: Packy Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Hey wha happened?

http://www.relix.com/cgi-bin/content_list.cgi?type=news

and who knows more about this??!!?

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Poster: East Coast Date: Nov 30, 2005 7:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: AUD's are back

Great Post Link...How easily we turn on Phil. Hopefully now the record is set straight. Now that the AUD are back in the archive.

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Poster: Phukit Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

if any music community was policed & monitored by it's members it was the Grateful Dead trading community. I, like most traders, happily bought Dicks Picks, Ratdog, Other Ones, paying retail.

now it's gonna be polluted w/ lossy crap.

this is another example of penny wise & dollar foolish.

this gonna make many people think twice about gray areas of trading

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 22, 2005 10:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47664

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Poster: TI41009 Date: Nov 26, 2005 12:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

It's pretty clear now that what looked like it might have been some kind of counterculture is, in reality, just the plain old chaos of undifferentiated weirdness.

- Jerry Garcia

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Poster: hoosker Date: Nov 26, 2005 12:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

The top header on the Dead.net site is interesting...
**BRING THE MUSIC BACK**
part of an advertisement for the drum head auction. It's so wierd it's funny. But not exactly good wierd. Seems like the community is the butt of some sick little joke? Arghhh....

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Poster: TI41009 Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

If they need money, there's always Plan B

A job a diary queen


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